I love helmets

[Wobblers]

I didn't say it was, it was a question

Well, that's a fair question. As I said in my previous post:

When it comes to my safety, I am not interested in anyone's opinion. I am interested in facts. And the facts are:

1. Despite research spanning over 2 decades, there is no undisputed evidence to support the idea that helmets reduce injury rates. Quite the reverse: the best evidence we have suggests no benefit whatsoever.

No one here is going to deny that a helmet may well prevent a scalp injury. You're not going to die from that though. There is a lack of clinical evidence to support the idea that helmets prevent serious brain injuries. While in some scenarios a helmet may provide some reduction in forces and hence benefit, it is going to be limited by the design limitations of the helmet itself - 50 Joules is not very much, in fact it is not enough to provide adequate protection to a pedestrian who falls over. It thus is dangerous to assume that a helmet will make a meaningful difference in a crash at speed. Furthermore, there are a number of instances where a helmet will act to make any injury worse, or itself cause injury, such as rotational injuries. In other words, a helmet may help in some crashes, but hinder in others. And, to emphasise, there is a lack of good clinical data showing helmet wearing reduces injury and death rates.

 

[Big Nick]

Would it perhaps be a good idea to do some learning on the subject you are discussing?

What on the speed rating of cycle helmets?

 

[Big Nick]

Well I guess that one anacdote settles it and any figures relating to people requiring treatment for head injuries from a variety of causes would be meaningless.

No, I'm going from my experience of both activities, I've taken more than one walk and more than one cycle ride in that time and it's my 'data' from comparing the two (including near misses)

 

[ufkacbln]

If the head of the British Association for Accident and Emergency Medicine and ex president of teh College of Emergency Medicine said that:

“As an Emergency Medicine consultant I have seen a number of children present with serious head injuries resulting from bicycle riding.
“It is extremely frustrating to know the extent of these injuries could have been dramatically reduced had the child worn a helmet.

Should we wear helmets on his advice?

 

[srw]

So you believe you are just as likely to fall over if you go for a walk as you are to fall off you bike?

As someone has already pointed out, if you read this forum moderately diligently you will find the answer to your implied question. And it's not a matter of belief but of very simple statistics. Depending on how you measure things (per mile, per person, per trip, per minute spent on the road), and depending on age, location, type of road and a myriad other factors the answer is anything from "walking is a lot safer than cycling" to "walking is a lot more dangerous than cycling".

 

[srw]

You can only go from your own experience,

And that is exactly 180 degrees from the truth. The one thing you can't go from is only your own experience. It's a single piece of data. An anecdotal ripple in the statistical lagoon that is the real world.

 

[Big Nick]

As someone has already pointed out, if you read this forum moderately diligently you will find the answer to your implied question. And it's not a matter of belief but of very simple statistics. Depending on how you measure things (per mile, per person, per trip, per minute spent on the road), and depending on age, location, type of road and a myriad other factors the answer is anything from "walking is a lot safer than cycling" to "walking is a lot more dangerous than cycling".

How do you measure how many walking or cycle journeys are made though to form any form of accurate data, hence I go by my own experience

 

[Big Nick]

Anything would be a start.

What have you read or experienced to arrive where you have?

 

[broadway]

[QUOTE 3326804, member: 45"]And how old is your alleged "mother-in-law"?[/QUOTE]

How strange, so you think I'm making her up?

 

[ufkacbln]

As someone has already pointed out, if you read this forum moderately diligently you will find the answer to your implied question. And it's not a matter of belief but of very simple statistics. Depending on how you measure things (per mile, per person, per trip, per minute spent on the road), and depending on age, location, type of road and a myriad other factors the answer is anything from "walking is a lot safer than cycling" to "walking is a lot more dangerous than cycling".

Much simpler is to look at hospital admissions.... Head Injuries that have actually happened and if the propaganda is believed could be prevented.

The (discredited) Rivara and Thompson looked at cyclists only and claimed 85% reduction

If we were to accept this figure then 85% of pedestrian head injuries would be a greater public health benefit, greater reduction to the impact on NHS costs and less trauma for more families

Common sense surely?

 

[srw]

How do you measure how many walking or cycle journeys are made though to form any form of accurate data, hence I go by my own experience

You really want to know?

You do two things. First, you ask people. It's called polling, and is demonstrated to be a reasonably robust technique. Secondly, you count. You station people in the open air and ask them to push a button on a counting machine every time someone goes past. Again, it's demonstrated to be a reasonably robust technique.

If the two figures give you roughly similar answers, then you've got a pretty robust set of data.

Oddly enough, there's a debate going on at the moment in the National Statistics Office because the two methods aren't giving the same answer for cycling. Cycling counts are based on main roads - and, as any cyclist could have told them years ago, that's likely to under-report. Guess what? The cycling statistics based on polling report higher numbers, so the numbers based on counting have been pulled until they can be improved.

It's all laid out for you on the National Statistics website - just go and hunt.

All of that is far more use than your single anecdote.

 

[Mugshot]

So you believe you are just as likely to fall over if you go for a walk as you are to fall off you bike?

You demonstrate here what to me is one of the biggest if not the biggest issues when it comes to these discussions. You are approaching the subject from a position of ignorance and showing no desire to look at the evidence from the other side of the argument, or alternatively you completely and willfully ignore it. Yet you appear to still feel fully entitled to tell people what they should be doing.
Far more people suffer head injuries from collisions when in motor vehicles than they do when on foot or bicycle, if we wanted to reduce the amount of head injuries suffered by people using personal transport we should make car drivers wear helmets. They are however statistically less likely to than people on foot or pedal. Foot and pedal users (dependant on the measure used, I believe @srw is our resident statistician) are roughly equivalent when it comes to the chances of suffering a head injury, so if cyclists should wear helmets, using the same measure it would make sense that walkers wore helmets too.
Keep in mind as well that even if the chances of suffering a head injury were much higher when riding a push bike it is undeniable that pedestrians do suffer head injuries (they don't only fall over either, quite a lot of them get knocked over by cars) so would it not be worth them wearing a helmet if it saved only one life?
There is a wealth of information on these pages concerning this subject and there are people here that really know their stuff, I find it is worth listening to them and reading the links they put up. May I suggest you do this so you can approach the subject with at least a working knowledge rather than basing your whole argument on a personal anecdote.

Would it perhaps be a good idea to do some learning on the subject you are discussing?

@User put it a little more succinctly.

 

[Mugshot]

[QUOTE 3327358, member: 45"]
No, not walkers as a group. Certain groups of walker. Same goes for cyclers.[/QUOTE]
Which groups do you have in mind?

 

[benb]

How strange, so you think I'm making her up?

I think he's incredulous that someone would marry you!!

 

[broadway]

I think he's incredulous that someone would marry you!!

My wife says no one else would put up with me so almost right