How would you improve central London Cycling?

[slowmotion]

While, as a libertarian, I would be tempted to argue for the right of the individual to challenge themselves intellectually in this manner (although would encourage them to pursue deeper mental activities and review their ideas of fun), there is no doubt that clearly segregated bike lanes are - or largely would be - massively safer and more efficient for all road users. As a driver, I'm much slower and extra careful around cyclists, particularly around the rate ones that seem like they are in it for the sake of fun and mental challenge.

Do you have a teeny weeny bit of a problem with the concept of cyclists actually having fun on their bikes?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

While, as a libertarian, I would be tempted to argue for the right of the individual to challenge themselves intellectually in this manner (although would encourage them to pursue deeper mental activities and review their ideas of fun), there is no doubt that clearly segregated bike lanes are - or largely would be - massively safer and more efficient for all road users. As a driver, I'm much slower and extra careful around cyclists, particularly around the rate ones that seem like they are in it for the sake of fun and mental challenge.

You’re advocating taking at least a lane away from motorised vehicles on every central London road. Interesting,, but likely not politically acceptable (yet)

 

[Once a Wheeler]

Systematically add Belgian-style bicycle access ramps throughout TfL Overground:


This would be a major step towards turning pro-cycling lip-service into an integrated service for cyclists.

 

[hennbell]

To improve riding in London take the zwift London map, copy and paste.
This is from a person who has never actually rode a bicycle anywhere near London.

 

[mjr]

Systematically add Belgian-style bicycle access ramps throughout TfL Overground:
View attachment 630535

This would be a major step towards turning pro-cycling lip-service into an integrated service for cyclists.

Some stations, notably Cambridge and Cambridge North, have installed similar-but-narrower ramps...

...but because we're British, the steps are signed as keep left, and the ramps are installed on the left side, the opposite of the above picture...

...and because we're British and give the absolute farking minimum space for bicycles even when they're being pushed, the ramps are too narrow for most MTB tyres and are almost underneath the hand rails...

...so you have to tilt your bike so much that a typical urban hybrid or gravel bike long-cage derailleur hits the right-hand edge of the ramp. The ramps are basically useless and will damage >50% of bikes if their owners don't notice the derailleur snagging before pushing them further.

 

[Etern4l]

Your example demonstrates they were going too fast for conditions, they weren’t being responsible, the weren’t situationally aware. In fact if they were being responsible they likely wouldn’t even be in their car as their short journey didn’t warrant it. Why on earth you are defending all these accidents caused by people who were driving when they didn’t need to I don’t know. If you want to improve cycling in central London, you want to reduce the millions of short journeys they are making by car.

As a reminder, this is your interpretation of the events which lead to an example scuffed mirror insurance claim. 😄

We don't even know if another car damaged it, never mind the length of the journey, or more detailed circumstances.

I don't think this sort of hyper-combative attitude is helping the cycling cause. For more people to start cycling, we need a combination of safe infrastructure, internal motivation based on expected benefits such as improved health etc. People living in flats need secure storage spaces for their bikes. We need to clamp down on bike theft. Blanket vilification of people for using cars is not going to achieve anything other than the opposite effect.

Do you have a teeny weeny bit of a problem with the concept of cyclists actually having fun on their bikes?

Not at all, in fact I enjoy most of my rides, except the one when I was assaulted and ended up in the canal. I also don't see the fun in cycling on busy city roads with no bike lanes, sandwiched between cars, stuck in traffic engulfed in fumes from trucks and buses etc. Disgusting.

You’re advocating taking at least a lane away from motorised vehicles on every central London road. Interesting,, but likely not politically acceptable (yet)

Half a lane would suffice, and it can be reclaimed from the typically generous pavement.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Half a lane would suffice, and it can be reclaimed from the typically generous pavement.

No where near wide enough for two way traffic.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

We don't even know if another car damaged it, never mind the length of the journey, or more detailed circumstances.

That doesn’t change that a driver had poor judgement, poor situational awareness, poor spatial awareness, poor judgement of the width of their vehicle etc.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I don't think this sort of hyper-combative attitude is helping

It hardly hyper combative , just pointing out the realities of what decades of prioritising the motor vehicle has led to. We all know these realities as the vast majority drive.

Remember a cyclist is not defined by exclusively riding a bike, but in terms of how they prioritise their mode of transport to be the bike over local scale distances, where as a motorists prioritises using a car as their mode of transport over almost all distances that don’t involve flying.

 

[Etern4l]

No where near wide enough for two way traffic.

I was talking about the one way cycle lanes on the side of the road, the ones often blocked by cars.
Yet, that's how wide some of the Cx bike "super-highways" and canal routes are. Clearly, room for improvement but either type is way better than riding on busy streets (personal safety matters notwithstanding in relation to towpaths) , given the level if traffic I tend to see on my routes. If we ever get to Amsterdam-level cycle traffic, those cycleways will indeed become problematic.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I was talking about the one way cycle lanes on the side of the road, the ones often blocked by cars.
Yet, that's how wide some of the Cx bike "super-highways" and canal routes are. Clearly, room for improvement but either type is way better than riding on busy streets (personal safety matters notwithstanding in relation to towpaths) , given the level if traffic I tend to see on my routes. If we ever get to Amsterdam-level cycle traffic, those cycleways will indeed become problematic.

Why is why you need to take a whole lane away from motorised vehicles. Then you can have two way.

 

[Etern4l]

That doesn’t change that a driver had poor judgement, poor situational awareness, poor spatial awareness, poor judgement of the width of their vehicle etc.

I'm about to give up on this seemingly pointless exchange, but just out of interest: which driver are you referring to, given that the damaged car was unattended, and there was no CCTV or witness evidence to suggest that another car was even involved.... Furthernore, we still don't know what number/percentage of insurance claims are related to confirmed collisions, or how UK per-capita numbers compare, say to Dutch stats

It hardly hyper combative

I sympathise. An occasional self-awareness lapse while getting caught up in a bit of heated discussion is not that uncommon. Can also help cool things down by gracefully folding on my end. Have a lovely weekend.

 

[Etern4l]

Why is why you need to take a whole lane away from motorised vehicles. Then you can have two way.

No, you can take a quarter of the lane from the cars, and the equal part from the pavement, on both sides of the road. By insisting on whole lane or nothing, we are likely to end up with the latter. Food for thought.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

No, you can take a quarter of the lane from the cars, and the equal part from the pavement, on both sides of the road. By insisting on whole lane or nothjng, we are likely to end up with the latter. Food for thought.

Nope, then you are still prioritising motorised traffic over pedestrians in central London. That’s the wrong way round. If you want segregation for cycling, the space needs to be taken from motorised vehicles to ensure we are promoting the correct priorities.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I sympathise. An occasional self-awareness lapse while getting caught up in a bit of heated discussion is not that uncommon. Can also help cool things down by gracefully folding on my end. Have a lovely weekend.

It hasn’t been heated just myself and others have disagreed with your points, such as you saying using a phone when driving is fine. Hardly going to improve cycling in central London is it?