How would you improve central London Cycling?

[Dogtrousers]

it would be perfectly possible to use the mobile phone while waiting for the lights to change without any material distraction.

I don't think this is the case.

The driver needs to maintain awareness of what's going on all around whether stationary or not. If someone starts looking at the phone during a red phase they will assume, when they start moving, that everything is as it was when they looked down. Wrong assumption. While they were gawping at their phone, much could have changed. Do they pause before restarting, to re-check all round to see what they missed while distracted? Do they buggery.

 

[Oldhippy]

Simple, ban cars and use last mile delivery on cargo bikes. Do what they do in Japan, if you can't park it off road you can't have it.

 

[Etern4l]

I don't think this is the case.

If someone starts looking at the phone during a red phase they will assume, when they start moving, that everything is as it was when they looked down. Wrong assumption.

Arguably, you just assumed they will assume. Possibly wrong assumption. I have yet to encounter a material issue arising due to this specific case, whereas blocked cycle lanes are a CONSTANT danger almost everywhere in London. Central London is a bit better, but you still see offending sacred cow Range Rovers, private hires, Ubers, etc.

 

[Etern4l]

Nothing will change unless people start receiving triple digit fines, licence points and disqualifications, as is the case with the red lights phone use.

 

[Oldhippy]

Nothing will change without political will, brave politicians of which we none that look beyond the next vote for social change.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Arguably, you just assumed they will assume. Possibly wrong assumption. I have yet to encounter a material issue arising due to this specific case, whereas blocked cycle lanes are a CONSTANT danger almost everywhere in London. Central London is a bit better, but you still see offending sacred cow Range Rovers, private hires, Ubers, etc.

Are you seriously suggesting that it's safe to assume that a driver will be so conscientious as to re-assess the situation after distracting themselves with a phone. That's very trusting of you.

You are right that parked cars are a problem in cycle lanes. They render them useless. Where I ride in SE London the painted-on cycle lanes are always blocked with parked cars. They are a complete waste of time and just a box-ticking exercise by the local authorities than a useful bit of "infrastructure". I don't pay too much attention to them.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

It has been shown that phone use is as bad as drink driving when it comes to impairment. You wouldn’t find it acceptable, if they only took a swig of a drink at a red light.

 

[Etern4l]

It has been shown that phone use is as bad as drink driving when it comes to impairment. You wouldn’t find it acceptable, if they only took a swig of a drink at a red light.

Source please?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Source please?

https://archive.unews.utah.edu/news_releases/drivers-on-cell-phones-are-as-bad-as-drunks/

 

[Etern4l]

Are you seriously suggesting that it's safe to assume that a driver will be so conscientious as to re-assess the situation after distracting themselves with a phone. That's very trusting of you.

You are right that parked cars are a problem in cycle lanes. They render them useless. Where I ride in SE London the painted-on cycle lanes are always blocked with parked cars. They are a complete waste of time and just a box-ticking exercise by the local authorities than a useful bit of "infrastructure". I don't pay too much attention to them.

Yes, I'm seriously suggesting the vast majority of UK drivers are rational and responsible. The proof is in the pudding: were this false it would have been a total carnage out there, yet the UK is one of the safest countries in the world in terms of road accident rates, despite virtually non-existent police presence (OK, the automated policing via safety cameras and CCTV might play a role to be fair!).

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Yes, I'm seriously suggesting the vast majority of UK drivers are rational and responsible. The proof is in the pudding: were this false it would have been a total carnage out there, yet the UK is one of the safest countries in the world in terms of road accident rates, despite virtually non-existent police presence (OK, the automated policing via safety cameras and CCTV might play a role to be fair!).

and yet there are over 1 million car insurance claims each year. Does not sound that rational and responsible. No one will advocate that using a phone when in charge of a car is a sensible thing to do. It’s a dangerous act and quite rightly banned.

 

[Oldhippy]

If only the rational and responsible attitudes were applied to the environmental damage cars cause.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Yes, I'm seriously suggesting the vast majority of UK drivers are rational and responsible.

Rational and responsible enough to use a phone while at the wheel without becoming distracted. "Oh, I only use it while stationary at the lights, officer, it doesn't cause any material distraction".

Yeah, right.

 

[Etern4l]

https://archive.unews.utah.edu/news_releases/drivers-on-cell-phones-are-as-bad-as-drunks/

Doesn't this cover primarily hands-free use while driving? If so, the link would be irrelevant to the discussion.

That said, I will bite. If we are thinking of banning hands-fee use to reduce risk, then we should also ban talking period. In fact any utterances could prove distracting. No self-talkx, humming, whistling etc. In order to maximise safety people should become optimally-driving automata. Failing that, they should be replaced by self-driving machines. At that point, cycling itself would need to be banned as inherently unsafe. Please see the animated movie "Wall-E" for an artist's impression of what that utopia would look like in practice.

If only the rational and responsible attitudes were applied to the environmental damage cars cause.

Fair point.

and yet there are over 1 million car insurance claims each year. Does not sound that rational and responsible. No one will advocate that using a phone when in charge of a car is a sensible thing to do. It’s a dangerous act and quite rightly banned.

Too general. A nicked side mirror could trigger an insurance claim whicb has little to do with safety. We'd also need to look per capita and compare with other reasonable countries.

Rational and responsible enough to use a phone while at the wheel without becoming distracted. "Oh, I only use it while stationary at the lights, officer, it doesn't cause any material distraction".

Yeah, right.

Not convinced? Are you a driver yourself?

I will give you a cycle-specific example of legal nonsense: someone might ride a bike on a completely empty pavement next to a busy road. Technically illegal but harmless and much safer than the alternative.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Too general. A nicked side mirror could trigger an insurance claim whicb has little to do with safety. We'd also need to look per capita and compare with other reasonable countries.

That nicked side mirror might have just hit a cyclist as it demonstrates the driver has poor perception of the width of their vehicle.