How many gears do we really need on a bike

[chriswoody]

My 9 speed triple has a range 19 to 107 inches. Seems with 1X 12 speed you’ve compromised both the range and steps between gears.

Remember this is just the set up I have, GX Eagle cassettes go from 10 - 52 so a range of 20 - 104, which is pretty close to yours. Also this argument about the steps is a bit of a red herring, 1x was developed for off-road and I can't say I ever noticed any problem with steps in the gears because I'll often be changing up and down several gears at once to adapt to the changing terrain.

It's all horses for courses and depends on where you ride your bike, but I for one would never want to go back to a triple or double for off-road use.

 

[presta]

Whether that's a genuine "gear", I don't know.`

It is, because wheels and gear wheels are just rotary levers, a lever being a device that transforms force and distance travelled. The only difference between the wheel and the crank is that it's continuous, so that the applied force can remain in the same position as the lever rotates. Crank length should never have been excluded from the specification of bike gearing in the first place.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

1x was developed for off-road

Fat tyres surely as they wanted to go wider than 2.2”?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Remember this is just the set up I have, GX Eagle cassettes go from 10 - 52 so a range of 20 - 104, which is pretty close to yours.

Except I’m far from maxed out in range. I could move to 17 to 120 if I wanted. More cogs on back might have benefits by allowing fat tyres but range certainly isn’t one of them.

 

[Dogtrousers]

It is, because wheels and gear wheels are just rotary levers, a lever being a device that transforms force and distance travelled. The only difference between the wheel and the crank is that it's continuous, so that the applied force can remain in the same position as the lever rotates. Crank length should never have been excluded from the specification of bike gearing in the first place.

This depends on your definition of a gear. Is any device for increasing mechanical advange a gear? Is a lever a gear?

I'm arguing (just for the sake of arguing * ) that it isn't. Some bikes use gears as a mechanism to provide this mechanical advantage. An Ordinary doesn't and thus it has has no gears. That's my stance and I'm sticking to it.

I've been unsuccessful in finding a satisfactory definition of a gear. Most definitions refer to meshing teeth, but that would exclude gearing provided by friction belts which I'm not happy with. I'm going for something like "a mechanical gizmo for stepping up or down rate of rotation (and maybe reversing it too) with resultant decrease or increase in torque" **

You're right about crank length being neglected. Sheldon agrees and takes this firther. https://sheldonbrown.com/gain.html

* Let's face it, "number of gears" is an unutterably boring subject. I'm just trying to introduce a bit of drama.

** Edit. How about this one: gear / gi(ə)r/• n. 1. (often gears) one of a set of toothed wheels that work together to alter the relation between the speed of a driving mechanism (such as the engine of a vehicle or the crank of a bicycle) and the speed of the driven parts (the wheels). Link By this definition, a lever is not a gear; a block and tackle is not a gear; an Ordinary bicycle (penny farthing) has no gears. I'm not so happy with the fact that it specifies "toothed wheel" because there are CVTs that alter the speed of the driving mechanism but don't necessarily involve toothed wheels.

 

[Ian H]

8 or 9 seem to suit me best after that you just seem to spend all your time changing gear rather than enjoying the ride.

I can't say I think about changing gear - it's automatic and instinctive.

 

[chriswoody]

Fat tyres surely as they wanted to go wider than 2.2”?

Not to mention Increased freedom on frame design for full suspension mountain bikes, with no need to accommodate the mounting for a front derailleur. Also no more dropping chains on rough ground or fast downhill riding and other benefits beside. It was SRAM who developed the technology with narrow wide chain rings, clutched derailleurs etc in their Eagle groupset for mountain bikes.

Except I’m far from maxed out in range. I could move to 17 to 120 if I wanted. More cogs on back might have benefits by allowing fat tyres but range certainly isn’t one of them.

Blimey we really are getting into Wille waving, my gear range is wider than yours! At the end of the day there are also wider range 12 speed set ups, it's just GX Eagle is a little more mainstream. I can also easily and cheaply change the chainring to further adapt the range to my riding if I want.

Are there really folk who have a genuine everyday need for 17-120? As I've posted before, my cassette gives me ample range for cruising along on the flat or grinding up steep alpine climbs weighted down with bike packing bags.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Blimey we really are getting into Wille waving

I don’t whom you are referring to, but let’s be clear 1X doesn’t increase range, it’s the reverse.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Also no more dropping chains on rough ground or fast downhill riding

Not a problem I’ve ever really had in 30 years of MTB.

clutched derailleurs

Which work perfectly well with triples and hsve done for a long time.

 

[chriswoody]

but let’s be clear 1X doesn’t increase range, it’s the reverse.

OK looking back through my posts I did say 12 speed gives you a greater range than a triple when I should have said similar range, but to say that it's the reverse is completely false. There are some triple/cassette combinations where there are greater gear ranges than available with 1x and others where the opposite is true. There's nothing false in the facts I've given and I completely stand by the fact that for off-road use a 12 speed 1x gives all the range you would ever need.

Not a problem I’ve ever really had in 30 years of MTB.

Which doesn't change the fact that that's why narrow/wide chainrings were developed as part of the package with clutched derailleurs to retain the chain when riding on rough ground.

 

[FishFright]

Not to mention Increased freedom on frame design for full suspension mountain bikes, with no need to accommodate the mounting for a front derailleur. Also no more dropping chains on rough ground or fast downhill riding and other benefits beside. It was SRAM who developed the technology with narrow wide chain rings, clutched derailleurs etc in their Eagle groupset for mountain bikes.



Blimey we really are getting into Wille waving, my gear range is wider than yours! At the end of the day there are also wider range 12 speed set ups, it's just GX Eagle is a little more mainstream. I can also easily and cheaply change the chainring to further adapt the range to my riding if I want.

Are there really folk who have a genuine everyday need for 17-120? As I've posted before, my cassette gives me ample range for cruising along on the flat or grinding up steep alpine climbs weighted down with bike packing bags.

Being right won't help.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

1x and others where the opposite is true.

I’d like to to give some examples, even a rear cassette of 12-25 paired with a triple gives you a range of 80 inches. A setup typical on road bikes in the 90s. This is compared to your 70 inches, 1X 12 speed.

Happy to be convinced with triple examples you have in mind.

 

[chriswoody]

Blimey this is getting stupid now, you really are drilling down on a pedantic point aren't you?

Well lets give you two examples of 12 speed cassettes that are greater than your triple 12 - 25 cassette combo.

GX Eagle 10 - 52 cassette married to a 36 tooth chainring goes from 20 - 104 inches, a range of 84 inches.

KCNC 9 - 52 teeth cassette, again matched to a 36 tooth chainring goes from 20 - 115 inches a range of 95 inches.

So let's just leave it at that shall we. As I've repeatedly said, a normal 1x12 drivetrain gives the average rider more than enough range for off-road riding.

Yes there will be triple drivetrains with a wider range and as I've just proven, there will will 1x drivetrains with wider range, big deal, what does it all prove or mean?

 

[Punkawallah]

Pedantry? On Cyclechat? Surely not . . .
:-)

 

[sleuthey]

I've 105 on one bike.

Is that all? I have 531 on mine.