How many gears do we really need on a bike

[Fredo76]

About 1/3 fewer than I have, on my bikes now. I rarely use the big ring on any of my triple cranksets.

When I was 17, I didn't need a little chainring - 42/52 was just fine. ;-)

Seriously! I once rode up the back side of Gates Pass in a 52/15, sitting down the whole way:
https://www.dangerousroads.org/north-america/usa/4353-gates-pass.html

True story. Just ask my buddy, Alan Fischer!

 

[chriswoody]

Cross chaining - with the 1x12 MTB setups the chain is now 5 cogs off the centre line on each side.
Are the chains now more flexible?
A bloke who sometimes rides with us has an expensive bike with electronic shifting. I noticed the other day he was in the largest sprocket and the big chain ring. I didh not mention it to as he is a bloke who always knows everything but is cross chaining no longer an issue with more flexible chains?

Cross chaining is a complete non issue, especially with regard 1x systems. 11 and 12 speed chains are incredibly thin and flexible, especially compared directly with 9 speed chains.

There have been tests done and there are power losses at the more extreme ends of the cassette, but so small as to be probably insignificant for your average rider. Chain wear is also a complete non issue, it depends on so many factors, but tests have shown they do last as comparably long as a 9 speed chain and that's something borne out by my experiences.

Really the major downside to 1x is the eye watering cost of the cassettes and to mitigate that I will change my chains early before they start to wear the cassette down, I'll typically go through 3 chains before contemplating changing the cassette.

 

[Punkawallah]

The reply to the OP would have to be ‘a bike for what?’

But for general use I’d say three - one for pootling about, one for hills, one for when you are carrying a load and the hill gear becomes the pootling about gear.

Now the question becomes ‘how many gear inches do you need?’

 

[I like Skol]

I will change my chains early before they start to wear the cassette down, I'll typically go through 3 chains before contemplating changing the cassette.

I may be missing something here, but this sounds standard across my 9/10/11spd drivetrains. 3 or 4 chains then I need to change the cassette.

The other thing I noticed is that it doesn't really matter which bike I ride, 9/10/11spd, the gears still seem just right.
Lll
Also, despite modern limitations of 2x chainsets (I refuse to accept the 1x compromise!) I still believe a triple drivetrain is the optimal with the granny ring in reserve for that stupidly steep hill or at the end of a long day when you just can't go any further.

 

[chriswoody]

I may be missing something here, but this sounds standard across my 9/10/11spd drivetrains. 3 or 4 chains then I need to change the cassette.

You are right it is good practice, it was just due to laziness/cheap replacement components/not having a decent chain checker etc that I never really bothered on my 9 speed bikes. Now that my two bikes have these 1x drivetrains that it's become mandatory for me to eek out the service life of my cassettes and keep an eye on chainwear.

Why is 1x a compromise though? As in my initial reply, when you get to 12 speed, the gear range is actually greater than that of a triple set, with the 52 tooth cog being a de-facto granny ring that gets used only on the very steepest of climbs.

Yes, there are biggish jumps in teeth in places, however, they were always designed for off-road use and here they are brilliant. I often find myself making several gear changes at once as the terrain changes rapidly so have a close ratio cassette is a non issue. I do agree on road or predominately road use, then the closer ratios of a 2x will suit many folk much better, but I've put over 10,000 kilometres in on 1x drivetrains, including touring off-road in some pretty steep areas and the 1x 12 speed is ideal and never left me wanting.

 

[I like Skol]

You are right it is good practice, it was just due to laziness/cheap replacement components/not having a decent chain checker etc that I never really bothered on my 9 speed bikes. Now that my two bikes have these 1x drivetrains that it's become mandatory for me to eek out the service life of my cassettes and keep an eye on chainwear.

Why is 1x a compromise though? As in my initial reply, when you get to 12 speed, the gear range is actually greater than that of a triple set, with the 52 tooth cog being a de-facto granny ring that gets used only on the very steepest of climbs.

Yes, there are biggish jumps in teeth in places, however, they were always designed for off-road use and here they are brilliant. I often find myself making several gear changes at once as the terrain changes rapidly so have a close ratio cassette is a non issue. I do agree on road or predominately road use, then the closer ratios of a 2x will suit many folk much better, but I've put over 10,000 kilometres in on 1x drivetrains, including touring off-road in some pretty steep areas and the 1x 12 speed is ideal and never left me wanting.

What is your highest gear?

 

[biggs682]

I like the simplicity of either 2 or 3 x 7 set ups.
The more you have the more you don't use

 

[Dogtrousers]

The same as with frame materials and equipment. You need exactly what I've got, anything less won't do the job and anything more means you're a slave to the marketing men and have more money than sense.

Discussion over, close the thread.

Yeah. If you're not doing it exactly like me you're wasting your money on frippery in order to show off, you narcissistic exhibitionist. (Said while casting envious glances at equipment I can't afford)

 

[fossyant]

Gears, you need enough to enable you to get up the hills you may encounter, and factor in the distance. I've got 3x7, two 2x8, and two 2 x 10.

My CX has the biggest range of gears, whilst still not having large jumps between gears, 46x34 and a 11x34 cassette - I used this on a long sportive that hat lots of climbing, but chucked in two 25% climbs at 40 miles, then another at 80 miles (with 50 still to go).

I like 3x, makes perfect sence for long distance riding without resorting to huge cassettes.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Cross chaining is a complete non issue . . . There have been tests done and there are power losses at the more extreme ends of the cassette, but so small as to be probably insignificant for your average rider.

the major downside to 1x is the eye watering cost of the cassettes

A useful study concluded that extreme cross-chaining (say 50/30) lost the rider <1w. But choosing 34/21 (same length gear) instead was >1w less efficient because of the losses of smaller cogs compared to larger ones.
So from an efficiency PoV, large/large is 'better', but you're screwed if you need a lower gear and already on the hill.
If people want the simplicity of a 1x, the cost is that cassette, and the larger steps between gears. That simplicity also means less exercise for the brain: is that a benefit or a cost?

 

[chriswoody]

What is your highest gear?

On the 12 speed I'm currently running a 12 speed NX cassette with 11 - 50 teeth. Matched to my 36 tooth chainring that gives me a range of 488% or 20 inches through to 95 inches. I can easily change that with a different chainring if I need too.

less exercise for the brain:

Definitely a plus for me! I like to lose myself in the ride and really not focus on the bike. One factor that often gets lost in these discussions though is that my Gravel frame won't take a front derailleur if I want to keep the wide tires I need to traverse the trails here, so 1x is the only practical set up available to me.

 

[Once a Wheeler]

For me, 12 makes a manageable set. 12–20 finesses the basic 12 and beyond 20 starts to get awkward.

On the question of chain-crossing, I am reminded of Jean Stablinski, world road champion in 1962, who was renowned as a clever, rather than a powerful, rider. On at least one occasion he climbed a final hill using his big chainwheel in combination with the largest sprocket and then attacked to take the victory just as his break-away colleagues were shifting from small to large rings and so momentarily lost power. Refusing to accept conventional wisdom can have its advantages.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

On the 12 speed I'm currently running a 12 speed NX cassette with 11 - 50 teeth. Matched to my 36 tooth chainring that gives me a range of 488% or 20 inches through to 95 inches. I can easily change that with a different chainring if I need too.

My 9 speed triple has a range 19 to 107 inches. Seems with 1X 12 speed you’ve compromised both the range and steps between gears.

 

[C R]

One is enough

The problem that which one changes along the ride

 

[Ming the Merciless]

The problem that which one changes along the ride

There’s always the 24” gear available