HGVs in towns and cities

[Origamist]

Surely you would hear/see him when he overtakes? and then act in relation to what he is going to do?

I think you're having problems visualising this scenario, particularly the speed of events, but if you've never experienced it, that's understandable. If you're going to be side-swiped like that, there's very little, if anything, you can do (particulalry if railings are present).

 

[BentMikey]

Not blaming the rider at all, just saying what I would be doing in this situation.

Do you not see how you avoid saying that HGV drivers might be to blame?

 

[dondare]

LOL well yeah of course is it, when I drive I don't look to kill someone?!? as I'm sure other lorry drivers don't either.

When you bring a lorry onto the road you are making the road a much more dangerous place than it was without the lorry. You don't have to be trying to kill anyone for it to happen, but the responsibility is still yours.
When you pass a cyclist then give them room, and don't move in again too soon. If in doubt then you wait, don't overtake. When you're turning left then make absolutely sure that you're not crushing someone, and if you can't be sure then don't make the turn.
If you guess that it's clear, on the grounds that any cyclist will know exactly what you're doing and exactly what they need to do to avoid getting crushed, and you guess wrong then you'll end up killing someone. Not deliberately but because you made a false assumption. Why should someone die because you made a wrong guess?

 

[dondare]

Read the two articles posted by Origamist, in particular the one where the driver and cyclist swap places.

I know that the design of cabs mean that the driver can't see what's right next to him, which is why I'm saying either change the design or keep lorries off roads used by cyclists.

 

[BentMikey]

In a way yes, but like I said this is how/what I would do in relation to HGV's

OK, it looks like you accept then that HGV drivers, even though far better than the average driver, are very much to blame in many cyclist fatalities. Even if you don't want to admit to it.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

So how are those cyclists dying? If lorries are so easy to avoid then it must be suicide.

I'm afraid that's a pretty plausible explanation, given some of the breathtakingly poor awareness I see exhibited by some cyclists around my artic. Most of my lorry driving is done in an urban environment, just like most of my cycling was (when I commuted by bike) and I can safely say that I see more dodgy manoevres by cyclists around my truck than I ever saw by trucks around my bike. If you see what I mean.

 

[dondare]

The roads are populated by the young and the old, the ignorant and the inexperienced, the infirm and the incompetent. You cannot expect them all to be trained to know what to do if a lorry comes abreast of them at the lights, or starts to turn in front of them. That is why their safety is your responsibility when you drive and not theirs.
No-one should be placed in mortal peril on their way in to work or school by someone else's actions. The roads are supposed to be safe, that is why drivers are trained how to keep them safe rather than cyclists being trained how to survive.

 

[dondare]

This would cost way to much money to redesign. Far better to spend the money on awareness for cyclists. As for banning them off the roads that cyclists use them O.k. You just find another way to transport 95% of goods that the british public use or consume around the country. We are not out driving for the sheer hell of it(although I do like driving)

Did you know that lorries were invented before bicycles? But at the time it was appreciated that they were too large, powerful and dangerous to be permitted to use the public roads and so were provided with an entirely seperate network of their own. Hence we have the roads, for non-mechanical vehicles, and the other system - the railways, for locomotive vehicles. But the railway system was decimated in the 60's by Beeching, who had shares in Tarmac, and so heavy and bulky freight was transfered to the roads with all the problems that that caused. But I'm sure his shares went up in value, which was what he cared about. It's about time the freight went back on the rails.

 

[gavintc]

And your local Tesco has a railway line at the back door? If I am not mistaken this discussion is about LGV in towns and cities. Your comment has not much relationship to the reality of avoiding cycling up the inside of trucks in an urban area.

 

[col]

The streets are full of cyclists who are neither trained nor experienced and the number is growing all the time as petrol becomes more expensive and congestion charges make driving into town prohibitively expensive. Drivers are trained, and then have to pass a test to show that they are suficiently well trained, in order not to be a danger to other road-users. It is legally and morally the responsibility of the driver not to kill, not that of the cyclist not to be killed.

I dissagree,its ALSO the responsibility of the cyclist to cycle in a safe and sensible manner.To put all the blame when a cyclist has done a dangerous maneouver on the driver is unfair.

 

[col]

So how are those cyclists dying? If lorries are so easy to avoid then it must be suicide.

I find hanging back from large vehicles very easy.

 

[cycling fisherman]

I am a hgv driver and keen cyclist...

i am a hgv driver and a keen cyclist, so what can we do to prevent accidents and improve our all round safety...

well, like it or lump it you are allways going to get HGV's in towns and cities that is not going to change.

Like it or lump it you are allways going to get poor, inexperienced road users.

My message is simple keep away from the danger areas and your chance of an accident is greatly reduced.

I see everyday cyclists who in my opinion are in too much of a rush they don't want to stop no matter what, and the stupidity is un believeable.

Just earlier today I was at a busy junction/crossroads turning left (with indicator flashing) stationary on a red with cycle lane on my left and then a barrier, there was 4 cyclists one had edged forward wanting to jump the red light and the other 3 were queued up my left hand side,

now look...

the first one of the 3 on my left hand side was leaning/balancing with his right hand on my front nearside wheel arch, the other 2 were chatting side by side, so looking out of my nearside kerb mirror i see the top of a cyclists helmet and his arm/hand resting on my front wheel arch, balancing if you like...

looking out of the nearside wing mirror i see some of the path, barrier, 2 cyclists side by side in the cycle lane (just behind the cab) and then the side of my wagon.

All of this and there are 2 high viz stickers with black capitals stating CYCLISTS >
PASS VEHICLE ON RIGHT
DO NOT PASS ON LEFT

a no entry sign underneath that sits on the nearside rear bumper bar indicating do not go up here, and a green arrow on the offside rear bumper indicating safe to pass up here...

WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY were they even there in the first place ?

i'm sorry but they were clearly in the wrong place they were in the danger area, even if i was going straight on they were in the wrong place.

These cyclists we speak of and i am not saying anybody here, but less experienced cyclists are a danger to themselves and need training it is as simple as that.

They need to Keep out of our way and well away to the front or the rear NOT the sides it is just too dangerous, I would say that in these recent fatalities i would bet that the cyclist was in the wrong 85-90% of the time and HGV's are very unforgivving in terms of HGV vs BIKE

There are some top notch cyclists out there including myself (ahem) which i am sure some if not most of the members on this forum are, lets share the road safely and lets use a bit of forward thinking and common sense.

HGV class 1 or 2 and bus...CYCLISTS KEEP OUT OF THE WAY. IT IS DANGEROUS.

Where do i see the level of blame ? 85% cyclist 15% driver.

another thing as well, the driver does not want the death of a cyclist/pedestrian/anyone for that matter on his conscience, we all have families and loved ones too and we dont want to see no harm to any of you or our own.

so lets drop the "lets jump on the wagon driver" shall we ?

You have just driven 56 mph for 4 hours its rainy and windy visability is not so good, the road surface is slippy and theres a bit of mist on your mirrors, you pull up at a junction to find 4 cyclists 1 is at the front trying to jump the red........

get the picture ?

KEEP AWAY AND USE COMMON SENSE.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

^ I agree.

 

[Keith Oates]

CF, that is a sensible and well written post, the problem is how do we get that type of message over to the cyclists AND make it stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[zimzum42]

It's telling that so many on here think that cyclists are never to blame and that drivers should assumed to be at fault/negligent etc....