HGVs in towns and cities

[hackbike 6]

Im not amazed myself.

I even managed to find the blind spot of a car when I was going around an Ilford rounderbout and managed to get the motorists attention.

 

[dondare]

I think as a lorry driver and a keen cyclist it is not just drivers who need educating about cyclists but also vice versa, one day I very nearly hit a postman on a bike who was down my nearside in a blind spot,I spotted him just in the nick of time as I was about to move away, I got out and invited him to sit in my seat and then positioned my self in the position he was in before I spotted him, he was amazed that he could not see me and i am a good foot taller than him, so don't go knocking lorry drivers we have a hard enough job as it is, remember there is good and bad amongst all of us and the bad are usually in the minority but they are the ones that get us all a bad name be it cyclists or HGV drivers.

No wonder the post get's held up. Isn't interfering with the Royal Mail treason?

The point is that pedestrians and cyclists do not have to pass a test and so there are always going to be pedestrians and cyclists who are not breaking the law but are nevertheless placing themselves in danger because of ignorance and lack of experience. Drivers have training and then pass a test not just so that they can be safe if everyone else is, but so that they can be safe when other people aren't. If everyone drove just as they did on the day that they passed the test road-deaths would drop to double figures.
If you in your cab can't see whether you're about to crush someone under your wheels then the design of the cab needs changing, or your vehicle should only be used on roads where nothing small can get near: motorways and that's about it. My contention will always be that HGV's should not be used in towns where the street layout dates back to the days before motor-vehicles of any kind and the roads are teeming with squashy things like pedestrians and cyclists.

 

[Origamist]

More from the Evening Standard:

"Protect us cyclists from the devil's transport"

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...yclists+from+the+devil's+transport/article.do

 

[BentMikey]

Lee, are you suggesting that it's mostly cyclists to blame for their own demise in HGV/cyclist collisions and rarely the lorry driver?

I thought that article was very well written.

 

[BentMikey]

Whilst cyclists certainly don't help themselves, are you aware of the RAC study that found that cyclists are to blame only 17% of collisions between motor vehicles and bicycles? That doesn't make your point of view very likely, even after taking into account that HGV drivers are much better than the average driver. Your bias is showing rather badly.

 

[Origamist]

The London Paper:

"As cycle deaths on London roads mount up, a cyclist and a lorry driver swap places to see who's in the wrong"

http://www.thelondonpaper.com/cs/Sa...155471475?packedargs=suffix=ArticleController

 

[BentMikey]

Not lorries though, most of the time as pointed out in my other post this occurs when the truck is turning left (note highway code 221)

I seem to recall that it was for collisions with all motor vehicles including lorries, not just with cars.

Your viewpoint seems to ignore those lorry drivers who feel the need to drive aggressively and overtake, sometimes with a left hook. I've had this happen to me in the past, and it seems quite evident from the accident reports out there that often the lorry driver is to blame.

 

[Origamist]

Good article, highlights the dangers of waiting at junctions and undertaking. The bit about the cemex lorry though is an absolute classic example. What the hell is a cyclist doing trying to undertake a lorry as it's going along the road?!?!

This is the type of thing that I'm against and should be made aware. Most deaths occur when a lorry is turning left, so this begs the question why is the cyclist on the nearside.

In two lanes of traffic you can be in the nearside lane and a lorry can overtake in the outside lane and then swing left.

 

[dondare]

Cyclists are on the left most of the time. Also, large vehicles do not turn left directly from the left-turning lane, they move out to the right before turning which would make passing on the outside just as hazardous.
Cyclists are not always killed as they filter up the inside, they have been killed by lorries that overtake and then turn, by lorries that pull up along side them at the lights and then turn, by lorries that fail to give enough room when both are going straight on and by lorries pulling out of side roads.
If the design of the cab means that the drivers cannot see cyclists then they should not be used on any roads where there are cyclists. If they must be used on such roads then the cab should be redesigned, one like that on the old-style routemaster bus would give the driver a much better field of view all round.

 

[Origamist]

Surely though, you would anticipate this if the driver is overtaking and then turning left. It's happened to me a couple of times, not with lorries but with cars and vans and has never caused me a problem apart from having to brake of course. However I never once felt threatened and that my life was in danger.

HGVs are a lot longer than cars and vans and I think you're underestimating how quickly events can unfold in a dynamic traffic environment. Remember, when you're braking, he is probably braking too (in order to negotiate the the left turn).

 

[Origamist]

Yes but as pointed out before, I would be behind the lorry not up the nearside. If both of us was to brake at the same time I would probably be level with the back of the vehicle. More than enough room for him to turn left.

Lee, there's two lanes of traffic - he's overtaken you, he's braking, whatchya gonna do....

 

[col]

Cyclists are on the left most of the time. Also, large vehicles do not turn left directly from the left-turning lane, they move out to the right before turning which would make passing on the outside just as hazardous.
Cyclists are not always killed as they filter up the inside, they have been killed by lorries that overtake and then turn, by lorries that pull up along side them at the lights and then turn, by lorries that fail to give enough room when both are going straight on and by lorries pulling out of side roads.
If the design of the cab means that the drivers cannot see cyclists then they should not be used on any roads where there are cyclists. If they must be used on such roads then the cab should be redesigned, one like that on the old-style routemaster bus would give the driver a much better field of view all round.

It seems that large vehicles are getting most of the blame ,but we have to remember they are there through neccesity,cycles are generally not,instead of trying to plant blame in the design of the vehicle and driver,why not just educate cyclists.we all know the dangers because we are talking about them,but ignorance or impatience is the cause in most incidents i would guess.

 

[BentMikey]

As for lorries overtaking and then turning left, this is just anticipation and riding defensively.

Lorries that overtake, you should look at your road positioning when you are riding in realtion to the width of the road, and trucks emerging from junctions, surely you would see them??

Lee, why do you apparently blame the cyclist for the lorry driver's mistake in these examples?

 

[dondare]

The streets are full of cyclists who are neither trained nor experienced and the number is growing all the time as petrol becomes more expensive and congestion charges make driving into town prohibitively expensive. Drivers are trained, and then have to pass a test to show that they are suficiently well trained, in order not to be a danger to other road-users. It is legally and morally the responsibility of the driver not to kill, not that of the cyclist not to be killed.

 

[dondare]

Surely you would hear/see him when he overtakes? and then act in relation to what he is going to do?

So how are those cyclists dying? If lorries are so easy to avoid then it must be suicide.