HGVs in towns and cities

[dondare]

Nothing, the onus is on the cyclist not to ride like a twat, apply a bit of common sense and not undertake/creep up the nearside of a HGV at a junction.

I thought this would have been obvious now.

If I ride sensibly, reach the junction first and wait at the lights, what can I do about the driver who pulls up alongside me intending to turn left?

How are inexperienced cyclists supposed to know that cycle-lanes are death traps? The Highway Code says that they can "make your journey safer". A law-abiding cyclist could be killed obeying the HC.

 

[Origamist]

Nothing, the onus is on the cyclist not to ride like a twat, apply a bit of common sense and not undertake/creep up the nearside of a HGV at a junction.

I thought this would have been obvious now.

Why don't HGV drivers have a similar onus?

 

[dondare]

Then repeat yourself.

 

[dondare]

post 63, last paragraph

You'd jump the light?

 

[Origamist]

We do, and I always do when I'm out driving but if you want to undertake me, or be a clever dick at a red light....I certainly wouldn't shed any tears.

Therefore, it is an onus that both drivers and cyclists share, but you seem to be saying that it is only cylists that need to modify their behaviour and learn from campaigns, not HGV drivers.

 

[Origamist]

Yes I am, look at the deaths that occured in London, nearly all come from the cyclist going up the inside.

Please supply the data corroborates this claim.

 

[Origamist]

Lee, in the Emma Foa case you have cited the driver was fined £300 after admitting careless driving!

"The court had been told that Thorn had been looking for some papers in his cabin when the bike was beside him and also when his vehicle began to turn left and the fatal crash occured."

You're doing a good job of undermining yourself.

Anyway, I take it that apart from cherry picking a few cases, you do not have figures over a defined period that support your earlier statement?

 

[Origamist]

Inquest ruled accidental death and he was allowed to keep his license. Anyway you did ask for evidence showing cyclists turning left, Emma Foa was one such person, along with others.

Have you got evidence to disprove that most have died by going up the inside of a truck? I doubt it cause most have.

But earlier you said the onus was only on cyclists - do you think the driver should have been more aware in this case? The Court seemed to think so.

Lee, it is you who is making claims you cannot substantiate. I do not know the statistical breakdown of HGV and cyclist fatalites. I assumed you did as you made a sweeping statement about accident causation.

In addition, there is not enough detail to know how the cyclist died at Southampton Row. Your selective gathering of articles has weakened your case, not strengthened it.

 

[BentMikey]

We do, and I always do when I'm out driving but if you want to undertake me, or be a clever dick at a red light....I certainly wouldn't shed any tears.

Crikey, I hope you and your family never need to experience this sort of heartless lack of consideration from the other party in a collision.

 

[jimboalee]

I have been hit by a HGV. It was one of Cadbury's transport trucks between Bournville and their chilled warehouse in Minworth. In retrospect, I should have been more sensible instead of attempting the shoulder shrugging squeeze up the kerbside.
The trucker didn't see me. He wasn't expecting a looney cyclist. He was watching the traffic ahead.
HGV drivers don't go out of their way to knock down cyclists. AND, more poignantly, new and novice cyclists don't go out of their way to read the Highway Code. * 73

 

[Origamist]

Not if the cyclist was in his blind spot.

It just makes perfect sense to me, that most (which I have always said)cyclists are to blame when you take into consideration their positioning, and the fact they want to undertake a truck.

The police investigators checked this (position of vehicle, mirrors, cyclist position etc) and concluded that the cyclists was visible for 37 seconds. CCTV footage confirmed the timing.

I'll leave other people to decide if your argument makes "perfect sense".

 

[BentMikey]

OTOH I have seen quite a few near left hooks or stupid overtake attempts by impatient HGV drivers in London. That doesn't reflect well on HGV drivers.

 

[jasper]

I find it incredible that a lot of cyclists are not using common sense in these situations...!

Yes, I agree HGV's have poor visibility. Therefore I do not go alongside large vehicles. If the cyclist wasn't there in the first place then he/she wouldn't be in harm's way.

Before anyone asks, no, I don't have any stats....but I see it day in, day out; cyclists taking undue risks. Is it really worth getting to the front, how much time are you saving by doing so? You still have to wait at the lights (or not, in some people's case). But hanging back, could save you your life...!

 

[BentMikey]

What I find interesting is how Lee adn teh other HGV drivers on here refuse to accept that HGV drivers screw up. All the cyclists here accept that some cyclists make mistakes and do stupid things, but according to them HGV drivers never do that.

 

[Origamist]

I've just seen a photo of the junction. Do you think in those 37 seconds she could have rolled forward two or three metres to make eye contact with the driver?

Don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but this goes back to what I was saying about cyclists applying a bit (only a bit) of common sense. If she would have done that she would have been alive today.

Does it make perfect sense now?

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/article/the-junction-where-emma-foa-was-killed

Lee, could the cyclist have done things differently, yes. Could the driver have checked his mirrors, yes. However, this is not what you have been saying - you said the onus was on cyclists only, not HGV drivers. This case highlights my point that there is a need for shared resposibility on the roads and both sides need educating with regard to hazard perception.