HGV Posters In London

[SavageHoutkop]

What would be better here is an ASL to get the bikes all the way to the front.

How would that be better?

Either you're in front of him anyway (and I'm also wondering about Origamist's comments - could you clarify - is it that if you are too close to the front of the cab you are invisible as the line of sight is not straight down?) or you need to ride up the inside to get to the front; in which case you run the risk of the lights changing as you do so and you're in the same position.

 

[jimboalee]

There is a question hanging over this poster. Was the truck at the junction first, or the cyclists?

Truck first, the cyclists should observe the trucks direction indicator lamps and hang back.

Cyclists first, the truck should stop at the rearmost of the cyclists and not move until all cyclists are clearly over the junction.



OK, so this doesn't happen at present. I hope TfL expand on the procedure.

 

[slowmotion]

Or directly in front of the cab (no Class VI mirror).

I could well be mistaken, but I think I read somewhere that the very largest artics have a whopping five metre blind-spot in front of the cab. Is this correct?

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

What would be better here is an ASL to get the bikes all the way to the front.

What would be better is to get rid of the blue paint completely - witness Gaz's videos for countless examples of the lanes encouraging cyclists into the danger zones up the insides of buses, HGVs, etc. Of course the cyclists are being stupid, but frankly the road markings are just an incentive. They give the illusion of safety.

This is, of course, in addition to the evidence that shows drivers pass cyclists closer when they are in cycle lanes.

If these kind of lanes are to be provided at all there must be segregation.

 

[Origamist]

How would that be better?

Either you're in front of him anyway (and I'm also wondering about Origamist's comments - could you clarify - is it that if you are too close to the front of the cab you are invisible as the line of sight is not straight down?) or you need to ride up the inside to get to the front; in which case you run the risk of the lights changing as you do so and you're in the same position.

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about - more cyclists need to know about this blindspot:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16114972@N00/5135985084/

I'll hang back behind a HGV if it's at the front of a queue - ASZ or no ASZ.

@Slowmotion - I'm not sure of the precise measurements, but that figure would not surprise given the dimensions of certain HGVs and their cabs.

 

[upsidedown]

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about - more cyclists need to know about this blindspot:

http://www.flickr.co...N00/5135985084/

I'll hang back behind a HGV if it's at the front of a queue - ASZ or no ASZ.

@Slowmotion - I'm not sure of the precise measurements, but that figure would not surprise me with certain HGVs.

Too right. And i will only pass it in slow moving traffic if the other oncoming lane is clear and if i'm sure he hasn't got to pass me again ie i can finish my journey or turn off before it catches up.

That photo's unbelievable, i knew they had a decent sized blindspot out the front window but i had no idea it was that big. Cheers for posting.

 

[SavageHoutkop]

That photo's unbelievable, i knew they had a decent sized blindspot out the front window but i had no idea it was that big. Cheers for posting.

Yeah, one of those 'oh, that makes sense' when you see it, because the cab is so high, but something you don't realise until it's brought to your attention!

 

[jimboalee]

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about - more cyclists need to know about this blindspot:

http://www.flickr.co...N00/5135985084/

I'll hang back behind a HGV if it's at the front of a queue - ASZ or no ASZ.

@Slowmotion - I'm not sure of the precise measurements, but that figure would not surprise given the dimensions of certain HGVs and their cabs.

Very much agree. Even if he's going forward.

 

[Norm]

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about - more cyclists need to know about this blindspot:

http://www.flickr.co...N00/5135985084/

I'll hang back behind a HGV if it's at the front of a queue - ASZ or no ASZ.

@Slowmotion - I'm not sure of the precise measurements, but that figure would not surprise given the dimensions of certain HGVs and their cabs.

Although, with reference to some of the earlier comments about legislative changes, that photo does show the mirror above the windscreen on the near side that, if the driver used it, would show eliminate the "blindspot".

I still don't ride up either side and I'm even wary of passing one on the motorbike, where the speed has me out of the danger zone in a fraction of the time that it would take cycling.

 

[clarion]

Mirrors only offer visibility to those drivers using them.

I deliberately try to make eye contact with truck drivers, and it is astonshing how many are not looking round, or are preoccupied by something in the cab, whether that is a phone, food, fag (less often these days), paperwork, or whatever.

 

[slowmotion]

There are some interesting blindspot diagrams here....

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/forum/discussion/598/hgv-blind-spots-from-nozzer/


but they don't show the one at the front too well.

 

[Origamist]

Although, with reference to some of the earlier comments about legislative changes, that photo does show the mirror above the windscreen on the near side that, if the driver used it, would show eliminate the "blindspot".
I still don't ride up either side and I'm even wary of passing one on the motorbike, where the speed has me out of the danger zone in a fraction of the time that it would take cycling.

Correct - it has a class VI mirror which is compulsory on all NEW large lorries put on the road since 1st January 2007. Older lorries do not have to have one fitted though. Once again, these images/awareness events are not 100% accurate (far from it) re: HGV blindspots - it's more about highlighting the general dangers posed by vehicles that have restricted fields of view and can kill you at crawling pace.

 

[dellzeqq]

surely the blind spot is drawn at street level. In other words if your head is (say) 1.6 metres above the ground the driver can see at least part of you, even if you're just a couple of metres in front of the cab.

I realise that in all these things the onus on the truck driver is very great, and it all your hopes and assumptions only have to fail the once, but I do look back at truck drivers when I'm stationary, and I don't recall ever thinking 'I'm too near to be seen'.

I'm going to check it out in the next traffic jam I'm in, though.

As a general rule (and I stand to be put straight on this)
a) if I arrive at the traffic lights or stop sign before the truck I'll be way out in the middle of the lane, so there's no chance of him or her going round me and turning left. If I'm riding with somebody else that person will probably be on my left hand side and I'll let her have a couple of seconds start on me
b) if I arrive after the truck then I stay behind it. If the truck is in the right hand lane of a two lane carriageway I'll still watch the front wheels for any inkling of a turn to the left.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

As a general rule (and I stand to be put straight on this)
a) if I arrive at the traffic lights or stop sign before the truck I'll be way out in the middle of the lane, so there's no chance of him or her going round me and turning left. If I'm riding with somebody else that person will probably be on my left hand side and I'll let her have a couple of seconds start on me
b) if I arrive after the truck then I stay behind it. If the truck is in the right hand lane of a two lane carriageway I'll still watch the front wheels for any inkling of a turn to the left.

Sounds reasonable to me. It's about all you can do, really.

 

[Origamist]

surely the blind spot is drawn at street level. In other words if your head is (say) 1.6 metres above the ground the driver can see at least part of you, even if you're just a couple of metres in front of the cab.

I realise that in all these things the onus on the truck driver is very great, and it all your hopes and assumptions only have to fail the once, but I do look back at truck drivers when I'm stationary, and I don't recall ever thinking 'I'm too near to be seen'.

I'm going to check it out in the next traffic jam I'm in, though.

It really depends on the vehicle though and the height/design of the cab - with most rigid tippers IME you can be quite close to the front of the HGV and the driver can still see you (I'm 189cms though) - however, I've been in front of some cabs (usually huge artics) where the cab is high and the driver's seat is set back and I could not see them. For this reason, if one pulls up being me at traffic lights I get eye contact and/or wave - if I can't, I move forward until I do.