HGV Posters In London

[Rhythm Thief]

Remember that video of the tanker lorry pushing a car along a dual carriageway? That's how big the blindspot can be. If you're in front of something with "DAF 95" written on the front of it, the driver probably can't see you. Older DAF 95s have a massive blind spot.

 

[summerdays]

These are some photos I took last year when I had the chance to get up in the cab of a lorry:

I can even see my bike leaning against the back of the lorry in photos 1,4 and 5 (by using the mirrors - its the one with the red pannier).


And as others have said ... if a lorry pulls up behind me at a junction then I'm likely to pull forward over the line if I think they are a bit close.

 

[DrSquirrel]

What would be better is to get rid of the blue paint completely - witness Gaz's videos for countless examples of the lanes encouraging cyclists into the danger zones up the insides of buses, HGVs, etc. Of course the cyclists are being stupid, but frankly the road markings are just an incentive. They give the illusion of safety.

This is, of course, in addition to the evidence that shows drivers pass cyclists closer when they are in cycle lanes.

If these kind of lanes are to be provided at all there must be segregation.

I was going to suggest getting rid of the lanes, but the point is they're supposed to be uninterupted (in terms of direction). But this could be done by putting the little square markers down instead.

If you stop the lane back, how far do you stop it? Do you then suggest cyclists should stop 3 cars from lights... considering a bunch don't even stop for a red light?

I do agree with you though.

How would that be better?

Either you're in front of him anyway (and I'm also wondering about Origamist's comments - could you clarify - is it that if you are too close to the front of the cab you are invisible as the line of sight is not straight down?) or you need to ride up the inside to get to the front; in which case you run the risk of the lights changing as you do so and you're in the same position.

That happens currently with all ASLs anyway... but surely if someone does decide to go up the inside, wouldn't it be better that they actually have somewhere safe to go (yes I realise there is a blind spot in front).

If a light does change... that is the time said driver should check the mirrors up the sides... and at this point the cab should be inline with the trailer thus the whole side is visible.

I do think it would be better if there was chainsaws down the sides of lorries anyway

 

[jimboalee]

These are some photos I took last year when I had the chance to get up in the cab of a lorry:

I can even see my bike leaning against the back of the lorry in photos 1,4 and 5 (by using the mirrors - its the one with the red pannier).


And as others have said ... if a lorry pulls up behind me at a junction then I'm likely to pull forward over the line if I think they are a bit close.

Yes. If a truck pulls up beside me, I'll scoot forward and look back to check he's seen me. I'll look at him for quite a while and check the cleanliness of my right hand fingernails in his nearside headlamp beam.

A nutty cyclist doing strange things seems to attract their attention.

 

[summerdays]

Yes. If a truck pulls up beside me, I'll scoot forward and look back to check he's seen me. I'll look at him for quite a while and check the cleanliness of my right hand fingernails in his nearside headlamp beam.

A nutty cyclist doing strange things seems to attract their attention.

By the time I had done all of that, I would have ended up holding him up quite a while after the lights turned green probably neither considerate or safe.

 

[Peter10]

If we remove HGV's from the inner city, we might as well just wait over night as the city crumbles. Without HGV's there would be at least 3x as many vehicles in the city (probably more). How many vans will it take to carry 1 HGV load? I think the poster is actually quite effective personally.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

If we remove HGV's from the inner city, we might as well just wait over night as the city crumbles. Without HGV's there would be at least 3x as many vehicles in the city (probably more). How many vans will it take to carry 1 HGV load? I think the poster is actually quite effective personally.

You are assuming that the HGV is actually operating efficiently, i.e carrying a large load to single or several locations in the same area. Neither may be true. Break-bulk type systems may not necessarily increase the overall numbers of vehicles that much if you look at the reality of how large lorries actually operate.

On the poster, yes, it seems pretty effective. However, I would like to see as much effort being put into to educating others about cyclists.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I'm afraid tht's untrue, and I'd be very surprised if you haven't either come close to being left-hooked by a truck steaming past you and turning across, or had one pull into your lane without checking.

The cyclist deaths in London are mainly of people who had trucks pull up alongside them, who forgot about the cyclist who had formerly been in front.

But I see so much cyclist education on this issue, and almost bugger all done with drivers. It's disproportionate.

Yes agreed, I should have said LESS likely as am aware of the London accident situations. Rushed post this morning in indignation. However greater awareness of the issue will help more cyclists stay alive.

Education may be disproportionate, but this is a start at least.
Cyclists have most to loose here. Awareness, road positioning and a lot of the cyclecraft stuff would help.etc etc. I'm will dellzeqq here on hanging-back, giving them a wide berth or taking the lane where necessary. Fear can be a healthy thing.
How to get the message through to HGV drivers is another matter... though it may be happening.

 

[jonny jeez]

Ok, I do understand the issue of muppets undertaking lorries and buses, but the thing that really shocked me about that poster is how HUGE a lorry drivers blind spot is presented as being.

Is it really the case that three meters out from the entire length of a lorry is invisible to the driver?

If that really is the case, shouldn't something be done about that?

Jezston, the point I think they are trying for is...just because a lot of riders do it...doesnmt make it safe or right...so dont follow the sheep.

In that respect, I'd say its a good ad...it'd be better if one rider was on the right (just in view) and the add said "only one rider was riding safely...can you spot them"

 

[ianrauk]

The poster is ok but not brilliant. It needs to have a more direct message. ie Go up here and you may die! It is something rather then nothing.
I am constantly amazed at the amount of cyclists on a daily basis taking risks going up the inside of lorry's, buses and even left turning cars. It's a staggering amount. And I don't think its ignorance more likely arrogance. it's not just fair weather cyclists either, it's experienced commuters. I did say to one cyclist who tried to go up inside of a lorry not to do it as that is how cyclists are killed. He just shouted at me he can look after himself.

Myself and the cyclist behind couldn't believe what we heard.

And you only have to look at this video from Mikey to see the arrogance I am talking about.

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12fMTAQyXTI[/media]




But, as what other posters have said, Lorry drivers are not blamless. I think we have all seen or been on the receiving end of a Lorry overtaking either too close and/or not knowing what they are going to do after overtaking ie turning left ahead.

 

[Fab Foodie]

ianrauk

That video says it all really, guy nearly gets himself killed, mikey tells him how it is and then... he cycles up the inside of the truck
No amount of posters are gonna help shoot-for-brains like that.

 

[davefb]

If we remove HGV's from the inner city, we might as well just wait over night as the city crumbles. Without HGV's there would be at least 3x as many vehicles in the city (probably more). How many vans will it take to carry 1 HGV load? I think the poster is actually quite effective personally.

paris might be bad, but i'd hardly say it crumbles..


ban hgv from unsuitable roads lets face it most hgv are aiming for out of town anyway. even if it was just the french 'during these hours' surely thats a solution?

as for the viewing, i think this is a failure that for a long time it seemingly hasnt been recognised as a 'design need' by either makers or regulators. cars have ncap stars for safety for driver AND peds/cyclists, ie removal of 'hard bits that kill pedestrians' so are there ncap stars for cabs ( or relatively small wagons like that cab above) ?? do they include issues like visibility??

i guess the driver would be moved back for his safety, but that creates the space where you can't see... friend drives hgv ( main job driving instructor and he had a student who was cycling killed by a truck years ago) he says theres a number of designs like lower cab heights and 'more like american' style ones. also some of his cabs have tv cameras to cover those gaps as well as the mirrors. i mean, cctv down the side, that'd cost rock all...

 

[clarion]

Yes agreed, I should have said LESS likely as am aware of the London accident situations. Rushed post this morning in indignation. However greater awareness of the issue will help more cyclists stay alive.

Education may be disproportionate, but this is a start at least.
Cyclists have most to loose here. Awareness, road positioning and a lot of the cyclecraft stuff would help.etc etc. I'm will dellzeqq here on hanging-back, giving them a wide berth or taking the lane where necessary. Fear can be a healthy thing.
How to get the message through to HGV drivers is another matter... though it may be happening.

Thanks for the clarification. I think we agree.

 

[jimboalee]

By the time I had done all of that, I would have ended up holding him up quite a while after the lights turned green probably neither considerate or safe.

The message here was, "Do something to catch the truck driver's attention, not stop for a manicure."

You lot have very little imagination and a serious inability to think in a situation.
It's all that reading "How to" books. They disconnect your initiative.

 

[slowmotion]

ianrauk

That video says it all really, guy nearly gets himself killed, mikey tells him how it is and then... he cycles up the inside of the truck
No amount of posters are gonna help shoot-for-brains like that.

Maybe he was just an adrenaline junkie missing his wing suit and a cliff in Norway????