HGV driver fails to spot approaching motorcyclist

[Milkfloat]

But surely it was "the proper.manoeuvre" the problem was he didn't look properly.

I really don't get the bbc's "not negligent" comment though as it manifestly was negligent. But nor was it inherently stupid - and I do rather wonder if the pitchfork brigade have really never.made a mistake driving. Most of us try and be sensible, but no one who's scrapped a gatepost can be too righteous here.

Would have the proper maneuver not to have seen to swing out wider on his carriage way before making the turn, thus meaning he would not be on the wrong side of the road when going around the corner? In addition, could he not have gone slower and thus been able to get more lock on the steering earlier with a similar effect?

 

[Milkfloat]

[QUOTE 3815300, member: 45"]The manoeuvre itself is ok. It's the lack of proper observation which led to the collision.

Apparently the driver was aiming to deliver to a property on that side of the road and so had no intention of moving back over to the left side.

If the biker hand't been so quick-witted, he'd be dead.[/QUOTE]

I am pretty sure the highway code does not allow a vehicle to turn into a sideroad on the wrong side of the road, irrespective of observation or lack of.

 

[Profpointy]

Proper observation is the key thing here, and in an awful lot of driving to be honest. My driving, particularly observation was hugely improved by doing my motorcycle test. It was drummed into us a very systematic approach of looking, indicating, looking again - especially the over the shoulder "lifesaver". It may be that's now in the normal driving test - dunno. At any rate I got far fewer "surprises" after including this in my car driving. But that said I still make mistakes but usually when I've deviated from "the system".

A disciplined systematic approach won't eliminate mistakes but will substantially reduce.

All this is quite different from wilfully stupid driving - overtaking on blind bends and the like

 

[Milkfloat]

[QUOTE 3815369, member: 45"]The HC takes into account the need for large vehicles to use more of the road than us normaluns.

https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/road-junctions-170-to-183
170

• watch out for long vehicles which may be turning at a junction ahead; they may have to use the whole width of the road to make the turn (see Rule 221)

https://www.gov.uk/road-users-requiring-extra-care-204-to-225/other-vehicles-219-to-225
221
Large vehicles. These may need extra road space to turn or to deal with a hazard that you are not able to see. If you are following a large vehicle, such as a bus or articulated lorry, be aware that the driver may not be able to see you in the mirrors. Be prepared to stop and wait if it needs room or time to turn.[/QUOTE]

Bosh - you got me!

 

[jefmcg]

I make all sorts of mistakes. For example, I sometimes drop things at home - smashed a few glasses on the kitchen floor. Never dropped one of my kids onto it though.

a nice analogy. I was thinking "I've may have grazed a post in my life, but never run over a toddler in the middle of a driveway.

There is no excuse for not checking in front of your vehicle when doing a low speed manoeuvre in a vehicle so heavy it could crush a car.

 

[Drago]

The silhouette of the driver in the cab was visible long before he crushed the lads bike. Clearly, if the rider has a view of him then he has a view of the rider.

It is willfully stupid. At best it was stupid to proceed when he knew he was driving into his own blind spot, at worse he is too lazy or ill disciplined to look properly. Whichever end of the spectrum he was at it was entirely of his own volition.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Was this driver ever charged?

GC

 

[jefmcg]

Was this driver ever charged?

GC

It only happened on Monday.

 

[jazzkat]

But surely it was "the proper.manoeuvre" the problem was he didn't look properly.

I really don't get the bbc's "not negligent" comment though as it manifestly was negligent. But nor was it inherently stupid - and I do rather wonder if the pitchfork brigade have really never.made a mistake driving. Most of us try and be sensible, but no one who's scrapped a gatepost can be too righteous here.

EDIT - I'm not saying the driving was remotely OK for the avoidance of doubt

Sharpens pitchfork.............
While it may be the correct way to deal with turning into the side road, the motorcycle also did the correct thing, namely, he held back to allow the lorry to turn wide. He was thanked for his patience and roadcraft by being run over!
Yes I have made mistakes while driving, I don't think anyone is truly 100% perfect as a driver, but the mistakes I have made haven't included running over other road users.

Likening scraping a gatepost to running over an innocent, vulnerable road user is a bit of a leap. What would you say if it had been a kid on a push bike or a young mum pushing a pram across the road rather than a motorcyclist?
I'm not having a pop at you prof, I just can't see or agree to your logic in defending such bad driving.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

It only happened on Monday.

Aye but there's only 14 days within which the NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) must be issued.

GC

 

[Tin Pot]

Get rid of the driver, the vehicle be the company.

Deliver building materials from the warehouse by human chain.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Get rid of the driver, the vehicle be the company.

Arrr, it be talk like a pirate day already?

GC

 

[Profpointy]

Sharpens pitchfork.............
While it may be the correct way to deal with turning into the side road, the motorcycle also did the correct thing, namely, he held back to allow the lorry to turn wide. He was thanked for his patience and roadcraft by being run over!
Yes I have made mistakes while driving, I don't think anyone is truly 100% perfect as a driver, but the mistakes I have made haven't included running over other road users.

Likening scraping a gatepost to running over an innocent, vulnerable road user is a bit of a leap. What would you say if it had been a kid on a push bike or a young mum pushing a pram across the road rather than a motorcyclist?
I'm not having a pop at you prof, I just can't see or agree to your logic in defending such bad driving.

First of all, I'm not defending bad driving, and this is (quite clearly) bad driving.

But, if you hit a gatepost, which I dare say most of us have done something similar at some point, you have to ask yourself, "what if it'd been a child?". If you don't see a post, or a dustbin, then you haven't looked properly. I've never run over another road user, but the fact I have hit / scraped things shows I've misjudged, and if I can fail to miss a post I can fail to miss a child. How do we fix it? I try to be careful, I try to look properly and probably more effectively I try to be systematic, but still I make mistakes. I like to think I simply don't do wilfully stupid things, but how to avoid mistakes?

 

[jazzkat]

First of all, I'm not defending bad driving, and this is (quite clearly) bad driving.

But, if you hit a gatepost, which I dare say most of us have done something similar at some point, you have to ask yourself, "what if it'd been a child?". If you don't see a post, or a dustbin, then you haven't looked properly. I've never run over another road user, but the fact I have hit / scraped things shows I've misjudged, and if I can fail to miss a post I can fail to miss a child. How do we fix it? I try to be careful, I try to look properly and probably more effectively I try to be systematic, but still I make mistakes. I like to think I simply don't do wilfully stupid things, but how to avoid mistakes?

Ok, I see what you are saying, but there is a big difference in how that would play out. Clipping a gatepost usually means you are aware of the post, but misjudge the distance. You would presumably be moving very slowly. If the gatepost was a person you would either wait until the person in the way moved out of the way or you'd open the window and ask them to move.
Misjudging the distance from a post and clipping it at slow speed, is a whole world away from not looking properly and running over a child. However, the roads would be much safer if more people applied your principle and to be fair we shouldn't treat driving as such a laissez faire way

 

[Mugshot]

Had a very similar experience with a Tesco lorry this morning. I was exiting the car park, the lights were on red and so I took a nice central position in the lane ready to turn right. As I sat there a Tesco delivery came round the corner turning left with the cab on a collision course for me, I looked at the driver and it appeared that his attention was on his near side mirrors, I dragged me and the bike over to my left whilst shouting to the driver, he kept coming so I kept going until I was pretty much in the gutter. He stopped when he was along side me and said;
"Are you OK?"
I replied
"I am now."
The driver started saying something else but my lights had changed to green and so I continued on my way. I don't know if he was enquiring after my well being as I had just had to take action to avoid being squashed or if he was responding to me as he was not aware of his proximity to me and thought I had just been trying to get his attention for some other reason.
I suspect that the driver had looked around the corner as he started his manoeuvre and having seen that there were no cars at the lights and that there were no other vehicles approaching he assumed that he could use the side of the road where I was sitting because he had completely failed to look for any other type of vehicle.
Anyway, there we go, keep an out out for those lorries girls and boys.