Helmets why doesn't everyone wear them?

[ufkacbln]

But were not advocating that pedestrians should wear head protection, and of course they have a 50% greater chance of serious injury, there are more pedestrians (compared to cyclists) , and they regularly swap between pedestrian and vehicle routes . And they're more likely to be distracted by other things, such as phones, friends, shop displays etc. , not to mention the vehicle drivers who are equally distracted and not paying attention to whats going on around them.

I didn't reply to the OP, I replied to your unequivocal statement:

Now would you explain why a pedestrian head injury is somehow less traumatic, devastating or more acceptable to the level where they shouldn't be prevented?

Doesn't answer the question.......


There is also the issue that cycle head injuries are not common. Cohort studies of hospital admissions show them to be a very small minority.

 

[snorri]

Ok a chance in a million, but that one in a million chance happens all the time.

You are telling us cyclists can expect to crash once in every million miles cycled?

 

[Hilldodger]

Because I don't think cycling is dangerous. Even if it wasn't law I would wear one on my motorbike becuase I do recognise the dangers of riding one.

 

[Drago]

They may say that but they know bugger all...

Hossy staff actually know quite a lot. Where possible they like to examine the helmet as well as the patient, as they are trained to interpret how bonce potty impact points may relate to potential head injuries. Many hossies also ask to keep accident damaged lids to aid research.

PS, I choose to wear a lid but ain't fussed about compulsion. They could be naked and smeared in marmite for all I'm bothered

 

[redcard]

No they don't. Hospital staff know bugger all about the causes of accidents and the likelihood as to whether or not a cycle helmet would or wouldn't have made a difference. They cannot possibly say one way or the other - as they weren't there when the accident happened and they don't know the full circumstances. Any clinician who suggests that they can make that sort of definitive statement is talking out of their fundament.



I'm sorry but that is absolute tosh! A&E staff are not "trained to interpret how bonce potty impact points may relate to potential head injuries". Some may have an interest in it but to suggest that it is part of their formal training is complete nonsense!

Everyone seems to know 'bugger all'.

Who knows anything these days? Yeah, some randoms on the internet!

 

[Red Light]

No they don't. Hospital staff know bugger all about the causes of accidents and the likelihood as to whether or not a cycle helmet would or wouldn't have made a difference. They cannot possibly say one way or the other - as they weren't there when the accident happened and they don't know the full circumstances. Any clinician who suggests that they can make that sort of definitive statement is talking out of their fundament.



I'm sorry but that is absolute tosh! A&E staff are not "trained to interpret how bonce potty impact points may relate to potential head injuries". Some may have an interest in it but to suggest that it is part of their formal training is complete nonsense!

Agree. When my daughter came off her bike in all 13 medical staff told her she should have worn a helmet. Yet not one of her injuries was one that a helmet would have had any effect on. Mostly its become a knee-jerk response from people who don't cycle and have never looked at the evidence but have heard all the "must wear a helmet" tosh that goes around in the papers and on TV.

 

[Drago]

I'm sorry but that is absolute tosh! A&E staff are not "trained to interpret how bonce potty impact points may relate to potential head injuries". Some may have an interest in it but to suggest that it is part of their formal training is complete nonsense!

I am sorry, but your massively sweeping generalisation is itself arrant nonsense.

in the Hospital I frequent frequently in my line of work there are staff who are. Not all, but some. I have sat there across the years on more than one occasion while a Doctor thoroughly examines a helmet and talk all sorts of technical medical pap that I didn't remotely understand about the helmet, and impact points, measuring the diameter to try and calculate the likely torque applied to the wearers neck, that kind of thing. Not much of it made sense to me - I like puppies!

I have been present on, quite literally, dozens of occasions where staff have asked to keep the helmet so it can be used for research. On one occasion a Doc even grabbed me after a patient had been discharged and asked if I had the helmet - I didnt, but went and got it for him and dropped it off.

Conversely, this has not been universal, and for every time something like this has happened there have probably been 10 where nothing like this occired. Nevertheless, I never did suggest it was univeral in the first instance.

And you know what else - I have even had Paramedics on my courses as well, and to a man (no women yet) they have told us to try and retain helmets and Neurosurgeons often like to examine them as part of their analysis of the patients inuries.

You local Hospital, your local Doctors, I neither know nor care, but please do not tell me that that which I have seen with my own eyes, that which I have heard with my own ears is untrue.

 

[Norm]

I am sorry, but your massively sweeping generalisation is itself arrant nonsense.

in the Hospital I frequent frequently in my line of work there are staff who are. Not all, but some. I have sat there... <snip>

Nevertheless, I never did suggest it was univeral in the first instance.

I think Reg's point (the clue is looking at what he quoted) was that you did suggest it was universal.

I think also that Reg's viewpoint might have been formed over more than one or two 'local hospitals' and from more than a handful of individual observations.

Whilst proclaiming your own 'line of work' as if it confers some level of authority, you might look over Reg's history to find the sort of thing that a 'User' regulates.

 

[Red Light]

I am sorry, but your massively sweeping generalisation is itself arrant nonsense.

in the Hospital I frequent frequently in my line of work there are staff who are. Not all, but some. I have sat there across the years on more than one occasion while a Doctor thoroughly examines a helmet and talk all sorts of technical medical pap that I didn't remotely understand about the helmet, and impact points, measuring the diameter to try and calculate the likely torque applied to the wearers neck, that kind of thing. Not much of it made sense to me - I like puppies!

I have been present on, quite literally, dozens of occasions where staff have asked to keep the helmet so it can be used for research. On one occasion a Doc even grabbed me after a patient had been discharged and asked if I had the helmet - I didnt, but went and got it for him and dropped it off.

Conversely, this has not been universal, and for every time something like this has happened there have probably been 10 where nothing like this occired. Nevertheless, I never did suggest it was univeral in the first instance.

And you know what else - I have even had Paramedics on my courses as well, and to a man (no women yet) they have told us to try and retain helmets and Neurosurgeons often like to examine them as part of their analysis of the patients inuries.

You local Hospital, your local Doctors, I neither know nor care, but please do not tell me that that which I have seen with my own eyes, that which I have heard with my own ears is untrue.

So how many of those doctors had MD's indicating they had actually been trained in the methods of research. And how many were qualified in mechanics, engineering and materials properties? I have worked with a lot of doctors and done research with a lot of doctors and only a minority are trained in how to do research and most make the mistake of reversing the scientific method by looking for evidence to support their hypothesis.

 

[GrasB]

So how many of those doctors had MD's indicating they had actually been trained in the methods of research. And how many were qualified in mechanics, engineering and materials properties? I have worked with a lot of doctors and done research with a lot of doctors and only a minority are trained in how to do research and most make the mistake of reversing the scientific method by looking for evidence to support their hypothesis.

^^ this.

I work for a University & there's a reason why the department which looks into how people bounce is on the site which hosts departments involved in mathematics, physics & material science. There's also a very good reason it's not the site which has most of the medial sciences. The reason is that the study of what happens to the human body in an accident has much more to do with physics & material science than it has to do with medical science.

 

[srw]

You are telling us cyclists can expect to crash once in every million miles cycled?

No, he's telling us that he doesn't understand risk. Mind you, nor do many people who are paid to...

 

[ufkacbln]

I am sorry, but your massively sweeping generalisation is itself arrant nonsense.

in the Hospital I frequent frequently in my line of work there are staff who are. Not all, but some. I have sat there across the years on more than one occasion while a Doctor thoroughly examines a helmet and talk all sorts of technical medical pap that I didn't remotely understand about the helmet, and impact points, measuring the diameter to try and calculate the likely torque applied to the wearers neck, that kind of thing. Not much of it made sense to me - I like puppies!

I have been present on, quite literally, dozens of occasions where staff have asked to keep the helmet so it can be used for research. On one occasion a Doc even grabbed me after a patient had been discharged and asked if I had the helmet - I didnt, but went and got it for him and dropped it off.

Conversely, this has not been universal, and for every time something like this has happened there have probably been 10 where nothing like this occired. Nevertheless, I never did suggest it was univeral in the first instance.

And you know what else - I have even had Paramedics on my courses as well, and to a man (no women yet) they have told us to try and retain helmets and Neurosurgeons often like to examine them as part of their analysis of the patients inuries.

You local Hospital, your local Doctors, I neither know nor care, but please do not tell me that that which I have seen with my own eyes, that which I have heard with my own ears is untrue.

So if a medical expert advises use of a helmet then we should obey?

If for instance John Heyworth, President of the British Association for Accident and Emergency Medicine advised a helmet we should listen?

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

I think Reg's point (the clue is looking at what he quoted) was that you did suggest it was universal.

I think also that Reg's viewpoint might have been formed over more than one or two 'local hospitals' and from more than a handful of individual observations.

Whilst proclaiming your own 'line of work' as if it confers some level of authority, you might look over Reg's history to find the sort of thing that a 'User' regulates.

The explanation if/when Drago shows up again is going to be hilarious given User's occupation

 

[TheDoctor]

FFS.
The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'.
Head injuries are very uncommon in cycling.
You're far, far more likely to dislocate a shoulder or break a collarbone.
Which won't stop some idiot telling you that you should have been wearing a helmet, as happened to Tr1nka of this parish recently. No head injuries, yet the medics said he should have had a helmet...

So if a medical expert advises use of a helmet then we should obey?

If for instance John Heyworth, President of the British Association for Accident and Emergency Medicine advised a helmet we should listen?

If he's got some evidence to back it up, then maybe.
If he's just giving his own opinion, then that's as likely to be wrong as anyone else's opinion.

 

[ianrauk]

Helmet's do look crap though.