Having to wear a helmet to do a sportive

[ufkacbln]

The lottery bit was about taking chances, gambling. What are the odds, maybe greater that a helmet may help or winning the top money. Just trying to keep the banter going that's all.

threebikes, does that mean you are going to change your name to a alotmorebikes

Which is why I asked which lottery... you alter your chances with each one.

Do you decide to take more chances by wearing an "aerodynamic" as opposed to round helmet?
Do you decide to compromise your safety by not wearing full face?
DO you decide to wear an EN1078 knowing how inferior they are?

 

[jimboalee]

Have a look at the results of the Verenti Cheshire Cat Sportive earlier in the year.

Look at the times posted on the 67 mile event.

To complete a 108 km Audax at maximum speed would take the rider 3hrs 36mins. Damned good going.

Of the 736 people who entered the event, 556 posted a time. TEN went round quicker than 3hrs 36mins.

I have completed a 105 km Audax in 4 hours and a few seconds. I could have been in the top 25 on this Sportive..
For the price I paid to ride the Audax compared with the cost of a Sportive, and considering AUK rules ( Present road laws, therefore helmets are optional ), there's no contest.


You can do two things on a Sportive. You can..

a/ Prove you are amongst the 2% of riders who would need to wait for the AUK control to open, or

b/ wish you had saved your money by going on an Audax because anyone on the internet can view your crap sportive time.

 

[MartinC]

Here is a test you could try yourself, press your head hard against a normal road surface, keeping it pressed there walk along at say 5mph for 10 feet, now try doing the same with an helmet on. Now I know this test is not scientific and I am not wanting to be the person that does it.

OK, you want bang away at this so I'll bite. :-)

To do your test I'd much rather be wearing a roller skate on my head not a helmet (especially not a cycling helmet). Does this mean:
a. the test is irrelevant
or
b. your better off wearing a roller skate on your head than nothing when cycling?

Yes, I know I'm being silly - but you started it!

 

[PpPete]

Is that a Snell standard roller skate or one of the inferior EN1078 models?

 

[snorri]

Have a look at the results of the Verenti Cheshire Cat Sportive earlier in the year.

Wrong thread jimboalee :?:
Or are you just helping to make this into the longest helmet thread ever?

 

[PpPete]

The saddest and most ironic thing here is that we are talking about a product that is far less effective now than ten years ago as the design has increased the number of vents, decreased the amount of working material and increased the density of the remaining material.

The UK standard (EN1078) is considered so weak that in a US Sportive it would be banned, and the modern designs are heavily criticised by the experts. ....

Seriously though. does anyone know of any campaigns or efforts to strengthen or replace the EN - which we could all (presumably?) support whether we personally choose to wear a helmet (or roller skate, or anything else, or nothing)

 

[screenman]

Martinc, I was just trying to show that a helmet does have a benefit in some circumstances. Have you tried cleaning gravel rash, not much fun.

 

[MacB]

Martinc, I was just trying to show that a helmet does have a benefit in some circumstances. Have you tried cleaning gravel rash, not much fun.

Yes, and we get that but there's no guarantee that any of us will ever experience those circumstances. I don't race, I don't descend stupidly fast, I don't offroad, I don't have my feet attached to the pedals. So I can argue that I've already reduced the risk of having an incident. I then weigh up what's left and how likely a helmet is to be of assistance and I decide that I won't wear one.

So I'e done my own risk assessment and would consider reassessing if new evidence comes to light. Anecdotal tales from people as to what might have happened in the absence of a helmet isn't new evidence. In fact it's about as far from evidence as it's possible to get.

 

[ufkacbln]

Seriously though. does anyone know of any campaigns or efforts to strengthen or replace the EN - which we could all (presumably?) support whether we personally choose to wear a helmet (or roller skate, or anything else, or nothing)

YEp - In the States, the pro helmet Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute recommends a "rounder smoother safer" helmet

Secondly there is the paper quoted by "Headway" the pro helmet head injury charity

Bicycle Helmets 1 - Does the dental profession have a role in promoting their use? Chapman HR,Curran ALM. British Dental Journal 2004;196(9):555-560.


This states that:

The dental profession could: play an active role in promoting cycle helmet use; support calls for the compulsory wearing of cycling helmets, particularly for children; press for modification of helmet design and standards to increase protection of the face.

As dentists, we are particularly interested in the face. With current helmets there is a weaker, though noticeable, reduction in the risk of middle third facial injuries. We should therefore be lobbying for improvements in design

So back to my question, why are people wearing vented, angular helmets that are not full face.... surely they must be (insert adjective here)

 

[Ravenbait]

I wear my helmet when banging my head on the desk in response to yet another bloomin' helmet debate.

Sam

 

[gavintc]

I think the subtitle for this thread must be the most misleading on the CC forum.

 

[jimboalee]

Wrong thread jimboalee :?:
Or are you just helping to make this into the longest helmet thread ever?

Not wrong thread. You are not paying attention.

This thread is about sportive organisers making helmets mandatory.

Read my post again.

I am making a point that an Audax ride can be as fast/personally competative/physically demanding as any Sportive.

Read further down and you will see in brackets I have said Audax UK only demand the rider obeys the law of the land, which as we know, does not make wearing of helmets compulsory.

Therefore, those who are not wishing to wear a helmet and feel it is a damned cheek for a Sportive organiser to impose their ruling, an Audax ride is a perfectly acceptable alternative.

Comparing the Minimum time for a 100 km Audax against the meagre few who equalled it riding the Sportive, the vast majority of the Sportive participants could have saved their loot and rode an Audax instead without the organiser demanding the riders wear a helmet. ( without fear of being arrested by the self appointed Cranium Protection Police ).

 

[snorri]

Not wrong thread. You are not paying attention.

This thread is about sportive organisers making helmets mandatory..

I just didn't see the relevance of the times you quoted, the organisers want you to wear a helmet regardless of whither you are likely to take the longest or shortest time.

 

[jimboalee]

Sportives are cycling events for cyclists who want to pretend to be in a race, but can't be bothered to join a club and/or become a member of the national sporting body.

They dress up in their fancy kit and ride round the course as fast as they can, knowing that they are being timed and those times will be on the internet for anyone to view.

Most Audax organisers set the Maximum speed to 30 kmh, as per ACP. For a 200 km ride, its pretty fast and not many get back before the final control opens. A 100 km ride however is about the right distance to hammer round and beat the 30 kmh limit.
For 100 km rides, many oganisers set the Max speed at 30 kmh simply because there are lots of raceboys without mudguards who chose not to pay the rediculous fee to ride a Sportive. It was 20 kmh once upon a time when mudguards were compulsory.

[One aspect that annoys me is the raising of the minimum speed by many organisers from 10 to 15 kmh. This discounts a lot of youngsters ( school age ) from enjoying a 100 km BP ]

Audax rides that are organised by cycle clubs usually have a competative slant in each of the distances. There will be rival clubs attending and speeds will be high. For anyone who want's a speedy 200, go on the Beacon Cotswold Expedition. Beacon, Halesowen, Wolverhampton, Solihull, Worcester, Evesham and Cheltenham will all be there. Tag along with the group if you dare.

As I have said before, there is NO helmet ruling. You could wear a blonde wig and be ushered to the front, and then to the back when they see your backside is a bloke's

 

[PpPete]

[One aspect that annoys me is the raising of the minimum speed by many organisers from 10 to 15 kmh. This discounts a lot of youngsters ( school age ) from enjoying a 100 km BP ]

100 km with a minimum of 10 kph is a long day - for kids, and for organisers.
15kph shouldnt be a problem ... my 12 y.o. made it OK on his first one, and that was despite an hour on mechanicals & punctures (on both his bike and on the tandem that I was using so his younger brother could get his first BP) Maybe they will grow up to beat 30kph on a BP, I'll certainly never make it, (with or without a helmet)

Had to add last bit.... just to keep on-thread