Giving way to cars

[Dan B]

I don't flash people to let them out. I may stop for them, but then they can make their own mind up whether it's safe to proceed or not.

 

[Chris S]

Having right of way is no good if you end up dead or injured. Give way unless it's safe not to do so.

 

[benb]

Err...the post where he claims that letting people out is discourteous and akin to allowing someone to jump a supermarket queue.

It seemed to me that LYB meant that cars shouldn't assume they can come out just because someone flashed them out.
I could be wrong though, maybe LYB would care to clarify.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Wow, what an attitude to have. Yes it is courtesy to let another car out of the side road, in this instance the person who pulled out was not coreous to the cyclists because they should have seen them and waited until it was safe to pull out, that was just bad driving. But the person who was kind enough to pause to let them out was a good citizen.

I have let people push in front of me in the line at Tesco's when they have a small number of items and I have a trolley full.

Treat others how you expect to be treated.

He was a "good citizen" by altering the highway code and the RTA whilst not bothering looking for other traffic( The cyclsit). If that's a "good" citizen I shudder to think what a bad one is!

As for treating others etc... That's exactly what I do, I don't expect to be let out, I normally ignore people who are making tits of themselves flashing , hooting, waving, gesticulatingf etc...

IME these muppets come in two categories:-

Those that don't bother looking in the mirror to see the traffic that they are delaying by pushing people back , one by one by one.
Those that don't look in their mirror to notice that there is no traffic at all behind them and that everyone else would get around much easier if they just got on with life rather than tryign to seek a warm glow for being nice.

The really intersting ones are those that flash, but then don't wait, or even more interesting are the ones that flash when there are two vehicles trying to occupy the same space from opposing difrections . Life would be so much simpler if people just stuck to the HC and what they were taught rather than inventing some misplaced idea that they owe courtesy to those behind the giveway line and none to those behind them.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

It seemed to me that LYB meant that cars shouldn't assume they can come out just because someone flashed them out.
I could be wrong though, maybe LYB would care to clarify.

I mean it's a very narrow point of view to see "courtesy" as only being in one direction. The HC was written for a reason, it's not courtueous to start using a personal version of it. The muppets that flash, wave, etc are the same ones that effectivley reduce motorways to two lanes for a mile around every junction, by pulling into the middle lane rather than allowing the traffic in the two outer lanes to proceed and the traffic joining to find a space. Actions extend in all directions not just the one that you are trying to be courteous to.

 

[Bicycle]

I mean it's a very narrow point of view to see "courtesy" as only being in one direction. The HC was written for a reason, it's not courtueous to start using a personal version of it. The muppets that flash, wave, etc are the same ones that effectivley reduce motorways to two lanes for a mile around every junction, by pulling into the middle lane rather than allowing the traffic in the two outer lanes to proceed and the traffic joining to find a space. Actions extend in all directions not just the one that you are trying to be courteous to.

I'm not sure anyone on this thread does see courtesy operating only in one direction.

As to the Motorway point, I keep to the inside lane unless passing, but when approaching a sliproad I have a look for traffic joining the Motorway. If there is traffic and its speed and likely direction are taking it towards a place whose proximity to the projected location of my vehicle is likely to present a hazard, I check my mirror, indicate and move to the middle lane (or on the M50 the only other lane).

Sometimes I have to accelarate to achieve this. Sometimes a vehicle behind me and travelling faster will move across to the outside lane to let me in.

When approaching a junction on a Motorway, I expect to see cars in the inside lane moving to the right to allow joining traffic unimpeded access. I do quite a lot of Motorway miles and am not familiar with the 'reduction of a Motorway to two lanes' that you refer to.

At peak times the M5 and M4 (inter alia) can be a bit of a bore, but that is not because of courteous drivers allowing traffic to join the road.

I've read your posts on this topic LYB - and I am beginning to think you might be pulling our legs.

If so, it's been huge fun and you win!

If not.... I find I disagree with the driving style you advocate.

Do tell. Was it a wind-up?

 

[Hip Priest]

I took a motorway lesson after passing my test and was advised to move over to allow traffic to join from the sliproad. Letting people in and out of junctions is one of the few nice things strangers do for each other in this country. It's a shame that such a friendly act is considered muppetry by some.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

I'm not sure anyone on this thread does see courtesy operating only in one direction.

As to the Motorway point, I keep to the inside lane unless passing, but when approaching a sliproad I have a look for traffic joining the Motorway. If there is traffic and its speed and likely direction are taking it towards a place whose proximity to the projected location of my vehicle is likely to present a hazard, I check my mirror, indicate and move to the middle lane (or on the M50 the only other lane).

Sometimes I have to accelarate to achieve this. Sometimes a vehicle behind me and travelling faster will move across to the outside lane to let me in.

When approaching a junction on a Motorway, I expect to see cars in the inside lane moving to the right to allow joining traffic unimpeded access. I do quite a lot of Motorway miles and am not familiar with the 'reduction of a Motorway to two lanes' that you refer to.

At peak times the M5 and M4 (inter alia) can be a bit of a bore, but that is not because of courteous drivers allowing traffic to join the road.

I've read your posts on this topic LYB - and I am beginning to think you might be pulling our legs.

If so, it's been huge fun and you win!

If not.... I find I disagree with the driving style you advocate.

Do tell. Was it a wind-up?

Lots of people seem to have got wound up about it.

 

[Dan_h]

So give in to bullying behaviour you mean?

I kind of feel that on a bike we are not on an even footing with someone in a car. If the individual indulging in the bullying is surrounded by a ton of metal and able to cause a lot of damage with it (either intentionally or just through impatience and stupidity) then I would give the bully their way. Also if they are trying to ignorantly push their way out are they really someone you want to overtake you further down the road?

 

[Bicycle]

So give in to bullying behaviour you mean?

Was a reply to the following from Chris S:

"Having right of way is no good if you end up dead or injured. Give way unless it's safe not to do so."

I'm not sure the two notions are mutually inclusive. Giving way unless it's not safe to do so does not imply giving in to bullying behaviour.

I agree with Chris that having right of way is no good if you're dead or injured. I also generally give way. This is usually not to prevent injury or death, but because it seems courteous.

(Having said that, I recall only one time when I was subjected to bullying behaviour and I was driving a car at the time. So was the other party.)

 

[PK99]

I mean it's a very narrow point of view to see "courtesy" as only being in one direction. The HC was written for a reason, it's not courtueous to start using a personal version of it. The muppets that flash, wave, etc are the same ones that effectivley reduce motorways to two lanes for a mile around every junction, by pulling into the middle lane rather than allowing the traffic in the two outer lanes to proceed and the traffic joining to find a space. Actions extend in all directions not just the one that you are trying to be courteous to.

If following the highway code there is no need to flash or signal to let someone out of a side road in queued traffic as you should already have stopped such as to leave access into and out of the side road clear.

 

[roadrunner20]

The car should give way to the cyclists / not pull out / wait till the cyclists have passed . However if the car does pull out then the cyclists should just do the sensible thing and give way / let a fellow road user out.
Simples.

As he said, the driver should let the cyclists pass as they dont "have to" let him come out.

But most people /cyclists will let the car out if he is allready coming out.


I say this but you must be careful as the cyclists cannot see the car in front flashing and such doesnt know you being "let out", so slowly move out if being let out by another road user.

 

[Mad at urage]

I mean it's a very narrow point of view to see "courtesy" as only being in one direction. The HC was written for a reason, it's not courtueous to start using a personal version of it. The muppets that flash, wave, etc are the same ones that effectivley reduce motorways to two lanes for a mile around every junction, by pulling into the middle lane rather than allowing the traffic in the two outer lanes to proceed and the traffic joining to find a space. Actions extend in all directions not just the one that you are trying to be courteous to.

When driving, I'll flash lights at other vehicles to draw attention to my road position, including if I'm stopped with a gap for them in front of me. I don't expect them to rely on that to decide to pull out. When flashed or waved at by vehicles or the drivers/riders I don't let that inform my decision about whether it is safe to pull out. I don't hog the centre lane, I do however move out to the centre lane to allow vehicles off the entry ramp, as they will otherwise be in danger of running out of acceleration room at the end of the ramp which is dangerous for them and for those on the motorway, when they try to enter from 0mph.

The fact that one driver flashed at another meant precisely nothing, except that at that instant his lights were working; his switch may have been malfunctioning, producing a flash - or he might, at that instant have been prepared to let the driver out.

As I said I'd cover my brakes and proceed. I have every right to maintain my pace and stop-starting is more problematic for cyclists in terms of journey time, than it is for motor vehicles. There is however a reason would cover the brakes... Generally I overtake rather than filtering up the inside* anyway, unless there is clearly a lane provided for me to proceed with caution.


*Except when filtering between two lanes of traffic moving in the same direction.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

If following the highway code there is no need to flash or signal to let someone out of a side road in queued traffic as you should already have stopped such as to leave access into and out of the side road clear.

Exactly! So I ask again, by using the lights in a manner not intended by either the RTA or the HC , by inventing new hand signals of dubious clarity, by fostering an expectation that the give way line is optional, who is being courteous to who?

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

If following the highway code there is no need to flash or signal to let someone out of a side road in queued traffic as you should already have stopped such as to leave access into and out of the side road clear.

Exactly! So I ask again, by using the lights in a manner not intended by either the RTA or the HC , by inventing new hand signals of dubious clarity, by fostering an expectation that the give way line is optional, who is being courteous to who?