Giving way to cars

[Bicycle]

The question is a perfectly reasonable one.

My thoughts:

1. Be wary at all times of someone 'flashing a driver out'. The flashing of headlights does not (under law) mean anything other than "I'm here". This despite the fact that almost all of us use it otherwise.

2. Those who have said that the car shouldn't pull out until all traffic has given way are right. So the cyclist has every right to continue.

3. Sometimes (shock horror) bicycles are hard to see, so don't be surprised at being missed in this instance. A low sun may not help at this time of year, or the fact that after dark your lights will be almost invisible next to a car's dipped beams... or your silhouette may be hidden by street furniture behind you. Even the car's pillars may partially obscure you.

4. Generally, the more people I let out into traffic, the better my day. I think there is much to be said for just being universally lovely to all other road users. So I'd stop even though you have (in the case you cite) no legal obligation to do so.

 

[gaz]

I have this scenario everyday, including having it from the right.
The best thing to do is slow down and let the car go, it's not worth proving your self right if you get your self knocked over.

 

[Black Sheep]

I went into the side of a car that was pulling out, having been flashed - thankfully no damage and the driver was not ranting and raving but did ask why I didn't stop since a car had flashed her out

"I didn't know she'd flashed" was my reply.

as has already been said, flashing the lights means nothing, it can be used as warning of presence in place of a horn, in Spain it means "oi you <swear filter>" but it is often regarded as "after you" in the situation we're talking about.

however, it is heavily stressed in the highway code (which is not always law) that regardless of what anyone else is doing / saying, you must check and decide for yourself if it is safe to go.

 

[rowan 46]

courtesy is a strange thing. with some motorists it means what cyclists do to make their lives easier. My partner drives not myself but when I have been in the car I have pointed out to her that it's harder to get a bike going after stopping on a hill than it is for the bike to keep going. She now in my presence at least gives the cyclist a lot more time most especially in inclement weather, as she pointed out "I'm in a nice dry warm car look what those poor devils are having to put up with" I think that's courteous thinking of others discomfort.

 

[Svendo]

Taking another perspective, in civil court cases deciding liability following such incidents that led to a collision and consequent claims (admittedly usually involving motorcycles filtering rather than bicycles) the liability is often split as filtering is a risky practice and extra care should be taken, especially regarding traffic turning into or across queuing traffic. Some examples here.
Remember also the Highway Code says that you should always give way when doing so would prevent an accident, and common sense suggests to me that it is wise to expect drivers to be rubbish (and be happily suprised when they're not!).

 

[Edge705]

OK I'll throw another scenario into the ring and this happened to me not more than two weeks ago WHAT IF in the same situation there was a cycle lane on the left hand side of the road and to give the car drivers a clue its in red tarmac with pictures of bikes painted into the road so the car pulling out would have to cross or obstruct the cycle lane to be on its way?

I disagree the cyclist must slow down the car driver must wait until the cyclists have passed he can only move forward if it is safe to do so in this case and mine it may have endangered other road users

I agree the car flashing it out is also in the wrong but this happens all the time and whilst it may be perceived as a kind gesture it can put other road users in trouble this is also a cyclists nightmare and happens more often than it should

Im convinced if I was not a car driver of many years experience I rekon I would have been in quite a few accidents as a commuting cyclist the two serious ones I have had have been as a result of road defects/maintenace and not an impact with other road users.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Ok, am a driver and commuting cyclist but wondered who really should give way heere so please forgive the long-winded scenario!!

So, a car wants to come out of a left turning from a side road, the traffic on the main road is slow moving (crawling). A car flashes to let the car out of the turning to join the main road. There are a couple of cyclists who are slowly moving up the inside on the main road and are a few car lengths away from the car wanting to turn out in front of them. It would require them to slow down but certainly not a heavy brake.

It would appear that the car turning onto the road has seen the cyclists but figures they are far enough away for them to slow down safely. However, the cyclsist do not slow down making the car stop half way through its manouver and the cyclits to swerver aroudn the car.

My question is, is it unreasonable for the driver to assume the the cyclists will slow down when a car in front has allowed him to come out or should the driver wait for all cyclists to pass, or the cyclists to signal they agree to allow the car to pass out in front of them?

Hope this all makes sense!!

The road markings say "give way" , if there are no marking then he gives way to traffic on the right. Whichever way you look at it he waits.

The real problem of course is the muppet in the car that flashes their lights, makes all sorts of weird hand signals and subverts the establsihed rules of the road.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

So, you are pulling out in front of me as I cycle along the main road (Whether a car has flashed its headlights at you means precisely nothing)?
I'll cover the brakes and ride around you. If you have to stop half-way through a manoevre you shouldn't have started, that's tough on you.

+1

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

It's not wrong, it's called courtesy.

courtesy to who? The cyclsits in the traffic around him, the traffic waiting behind him, the one vehicle who will now not get through the next light change?

If you think it's courtesy, I suggest you try it the next time you are in a line at the till in Tesco's , see what the people behind you think about your courtesy.

 

[Bay Runner]

The question is a perfectly reasonable one.

My thoughts:

1. Be wary at all times of someone 'flashing a driver out'. The flashing of headlights does not (under law) mean anything other than "I'm here". This despite the fact that almost all of us use it otherwise.

+ 1

 

[slowmotion]

If there is a gap in slow-moving traffic near a side turning, I usually suspect that someone is going to use it, either from the left or from the right. I slow slown, cover the brakes and expect the worst. I don't consider my "rights". I've got the same attitude to left and right hooks. I just want to stay alive and not spend too much time being angry.

OMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

 

[BikeLiker]

Legally the car should give way - the give way sign cannot be voided by another driver flashing their lights which is supposed to be a warning anyway although most people, me included, use it as a signal to pull out.
Out of courtesy though, the cyclists might want to slow.
The problem is what this leads to. I had a similar experience descending a steep hump back bridge on wet roads following a car doing about 25mph. Although the road wasn't particularly busy the car in front braked suddenly and flashed a car out of a side road, which began to pull out. I was too close to stop (my fault) so bellowed more in fear than anger and after some hesitation the emerging car stopped. This is the problem with pulling out - just because one driver lets you go doesn't mean others will and the driver who crosses the give way will ALWAYS be in the wrong as far as the law is concerned.

 

[Bicycle]

courtesy to who? The cyclsits in the traffic around him, the traffic waiting behind him, the one vehicle who will now not get through the next light change?

If you think it's courtesy, I suggest you try it the next time you are in a line at the till in Tesco's , see what the people behind you think about your courtesy.

It is courtesy. It's courtesy towards other road users.

The OP had said that traffic was crawling. The only way under these circumstances that traffic has any chance of joining from side roads is if other road users let it in.

In doing so, many drivers will flash or make unusual hand signals. That doesn't make the driver a muppet. It is courteous and to be applauded.

However, the driver who flashes (however we interpret the signal) cannot say "We are all letting you out". He or she is at best just saying "I for one am happy for you to emerge".

At crawling speed it is to be expected that drivers will let other vehicles into the traffic stream. Indeed, it is to be hoped for.

A cyclist should therefore expect people waiting at side turnings to be 'flashed out'. Notwithstanding what I've already said about flashing meaning very little under law, it is one of the commonly used methods for letting vehicles into traffic.

The comparison with a queue at Tesco is an odd one. It does not mirror the scenario. Checkouts at supermarkets work perfectly well without anyone letting other shoppers 'push into' a queue already formed.

The implication of your Tesco comparison is that every driver behind the courteous one would feel somehow frustrated at being moved back in the 'queue' by one vehicle length. I think anyone who has driven for more than seven minutes will accept both the inevitability of this and the wider benefit to traffic flow that compensates for the ten seconds added to a journey.

In rush hour, traffic systems would grind to a halt fairly quickly if no-one let anyone else in. Letting other vehicles into a stream of traffic is common courtesy and I think most drivers both benefit by it and accept the need for it.

 

[cd365]

courtesy to who? The cyclsits in the traffic around him, the traffic waiting behind him, the one vehicle who will now not get through the next light change?

If you think it's courtesy, I suggest you try it the next time you are in a line at the till in Tesco's , see what the people behind you think about your courtesy.

Wow, what an attitude to have. Yes it is courtesy to let another car out of the side road, in this instance the person who pulled out was not coreous to the cyclists because they should have seen them and waited until it was safe to pull out, that was just bad driving. But the person who was kind enough to pause to let them out was a good citizen.

I have let people push in front of me in the line at Tesco's when they have a small number of items and I have a trolley full.

Treat others how you expect to be treated.

 

[Hip Priest]

The Tesco analogy is misleading. Letting someone jump a queue is not equivalent to letting someone join a line of traffic from another direction. I agree with the post above - our traffic system would grind to a half if nobody let anybody out of junctions.