Giving way to cars

[calibanzwei]

The flashing of lights actually means nothing.

A non-driver here, but I understand that within the highway code the flashing of lights is a warning not a courtesy 'come on then'?
In slow moving traffic I've slowed to allow a car to come from the left, only to have some dick driver behind gun his engine and pass - I'll take that as me as riding too close to the kerb and giving them the room

 

[John the Monkey]

The worst ones are the ones that can only get half way out so completely block your path.

Also known as the "Rusholme Turn". A frequent occurrence on Wilmslow Road, ime.

 

[Chris S]

In this case, yes.

RE: Having right of way is no good if you end up dead or injured. Give way unless it's safe not to do so.

So give in to bullying behaviour you mean?

 

[Arrowfoot]

The issue is not right of way. The right of way by law favours both the cyclist and any other car in other lanes that are not blocked. It more an issue of courtesy as the poor chap might be stuck in sideline in slow moving traffic.
Motorists in other lanes will slow down when a car in a lane closests to the curb stops in slow moving traffic and as most anticipate that it is courtesy leeway that is being offered for those stuck in side lanes. I am sure most cyclist do that as well.

 

[benb]

The issue is not right of way. The right of way by law favours both the cyclist and any other car in other lanes that are not blocked. It more an issue of courtesy as the poor chap might be stuck in sideline in slow moving traffic.
Motorists in other lanes will slow down when a car in a lane closests to the curb stops in slow moving traffic and as most anticipate that it is courtesy leeway that is being offered for those stuck in side lanes. I am sure most cyclist do that as well.

I think most people would agree that it's courteous to let people out, but it's not always safe or practical to do so, and the driver joining certainly shouldn't assume that everyone is letting them out just because one person has flashed them. What annoys me is drivers that either don't see me at all, or just force themselves out anyway.

If I am far enough away that I won't need to slam on my brakes, and it is safe for me to do so, I'll always let cars out into slow traffic. I normally won't do it in medium or fast moving traffic, as by the time I've checked behind me to see if there's room, I'll already be past the junction.

 

[John the Monkey]

...an issue of courtesy as the poor chap might be stuck in sideline in slow moving traffic.

The bike isn't "slow moving traffic". The bike can generally make headway quite nicely, as its rider hasn't chosen to join the popular Critical Mass style choking of the roads that drivers participate in in most cities during rush hour(s).

I leave plenty of time for my journey, am a nice bloke, and don't filter quickly, so I tend to let people in, if its safe. Sometimes I don't if I'm making good time, or have a cyclist whose behaviour I can't predict following close behind.

Note also, as the Highway Code says, that if ceding priority can help to avoid an accident, you should do so.

Motorists in other lanes will slow down when a car in a lane closests to the curb stops in slow moving traffic and as most anticipate that it is courtesy leeway that is being offered for those stuck in side lanes. I am sure most cyclist do that as well.

Depends. In situations where one lane is slow, and one fast (some filter lanes, for example) drivers in the moving lane seem entirely happy to ignore their suffering compatriots trying to join their lane. I see this frequently in some parts of Manchester and Crewe. Letting people in is more common where a single lane moves slowly, or all lanes move slowly.

 

[subaqua]

So, you are pulling out in front of me as I cycle along the main road (Whether a car has flashed its headlights at you means precisely nothing)?
I'll cover the brakes and ride around you. If you have to stop half-way through a manoevre you shouldn't have started, that's tough on you.

this

 

[Wankelschrauben]

I despise the attitude that some "safe and sensible" drivers have in these situations.

There is nothing safe about slowing and flashing, it is unexpected and therfore dangerous.

It should be taught to all drivers that people behind can not see a flash of the lights, that people behind can not see the car in the side junction and that people behind are not expecting the change of speed without prior warning.

Being stationery in traffic and allowing someone to move in, or even filtering from side lanes at minor speeds where no unexpected change of speed to those behind is required, that's different, that is to be expected.

The toss pots who slam on their brakes to allow every Tom, Dick and Harry out at every junction they pass, they're dangerous and should be removed from the road.

It is expected for drivers to expect to wait and pull out when clear to do so.

 

[Dan_h]

So, you are pulling out in front of me as I cycle along the main road (Whether a car has flashed its headlights at you means precisely nothing)?
I'll cover the brakes and ride around you. If you have to stop half-way through a manoevre you shouldn't have started, that's tough on you.

The only problem I can see with this approach is that you may assume the driver has got to stop, but what if they don't? What if they genuinely have not seen you or just don't care that you are there? What if their attitude is "At some point if I keep going then the cyclist will have to stop" ?

I know it says that you would cover the brakes, but there is a point where if you have not used them then it is too late. I personally think that it may be better to slow down or even stop and let the car out then end up either having a shouting match with the driver or worse ending up laying in the road. Even if "right" is on our side it does not always help.

 

[Inertia]

I despise the attitude that some "safe and sensible" drivers have in these situations.

There is nothing safe about slowing and flashing, it is unexpected and therfore dangerous.

+1 This is one reason why moving out into the middle lane is a good thing, it keeps the traffic flowing.

It should be taught to all drivers that people behind can not see a flash of the lights, that people behind can not see the car in the side junction and that people behind are not expecting the change of speed without prior warning.

We should invent some way for the people behind to know the car in front is slowing..we could call them brake lights

I do agree though, if it will cause you to have to slow down abruptly you shouldn't do it, the person waiting will have to wait. To quote someone else

"Always keep a good distance between you and the vehicle in front, at least a two second gap on a dry day. If you see brake lights ahead then ease off the accelerator. Sudden braking on a motorway can be dangerous. It can cause vehicles behind to also slam on the brakes. This causes tailbacks and even collisions."

 

[Bicycle]

I despise the attitude that some "safe and sensible" drivers have in these situations.

There is nothing safe about slowing and flashing, it is unexpected and therfore dangerous.

It should be taught to all drivers that people behind can not see a flash of the lights, that people behind can not see the car in the side junction and that people behind are not expecting the change of speed without prior warning.

Being stationery in traffic and allowing someone to move in, or even filtering from side lanes at minor speeds where no unexpected change of speed to those behind is required, that's different, that is to be expected.

The toss pots who slam on their brakes to allow every Tom, Dick and Harry out at every junction they pass, they're dangerous and should be removed from the road.

It is expected for drivers to expect to wait and pull out when clear to do so.

In the situation described by the OP, taffic was at crawling pace.

I think that's the situation most of us are discussing.

If there's a turning on the left and cars are waiting to emerge from it, this will be obvious to everyone on the road in slow-moving traffic. There is therefore nothing unexpected about someone making space for one of those cars.

I have never (in 40 years on a bicycle) seen a car flash and brake heavily from speed to allow someone in from a side road. I agree with you that it would be a barmy thing to do, but I've never seen it or heard of it.

The driver allowing traffic in should be aware of what is behind and beside him. When there are bicycles and motorcycles around it may be best to roll right across the junction.

 

[Arrowfoot]

I do agree. It's a practice that is fraught with danger if not applied well. Drivers coming out of side lanes sometimes assume that they have the right, do not check and go straight ahead.

I think most people would agree that it's courteous to let people out, but it's not always safe or practical to do so, and the driver joining certainly shouldn't assume that everyone is letting them out just because one person has flashed them. What annoys me is drivers that either don't see me at all, or just force themselves out anyway.

If I am far enough away that I won't need to slam on my brakes, and it is safe for me to do so, I'll always let cars out into slow traffic. I normally won't do it in medium or fast moving traffic, as by the time I've checked behind me to see if there's room, I'll already be past the junction.

 

[Arrowfoot]

Safety and preservation comes first. The moment I see the car next to me slow down or stop, I am on my guard and ready to stop even when I see that its clear ahead. Not worth even thinking about right of way. As the eye contact naturally occurs between the driver of the car stopping and the driver of the car in the side lane, attention is further compromised by the wave of thanks. Too many ifs and buts to hold on to the line of right of way.

 

[Mad at urage]

The only problem I can see with this approach is that you may assume the driver has got to stop, but what if they don't? What if they genuinely have not seen you or just don't care that you are there? What if their attitude is "At some point if I keep going then the cyclist will have to stop" ?

I know it says that you would cover the brakes, but there is a point where if you have not used them then it is too late. I personally think that it may be better to slow down or even stop and let the car out then end up either having a shouting match with the driver or worse ending up laying in the road. Even if "right" is on our side it does not always help.

I'd be covering the brakes and filtering at an appropriate speed. I certainly am not going to stop 'in case' someone pulls out, but I'll be traveling at a speed where (if he does ignore the fact that I have priority and still pulls in front of me) I will remain safe (and the damage to his car is likely to be more than the damage to me and the 'bike*).

As I also said, I'm unlikely to be filtering down the nearside by the kerb anyway.

*Commuting bike, dates back to '80s London ...very tough, very useful.

 

[John the Monkey]

Does this decency among motorists (letting each other out of side roads out of the goodness of their hearts, and all) count for allowing right indicating busses out of stops too, btw?

Precious few of the drivers along Wilmslow Road could be bothered with such niceties in the 10mph crawl out of Manchester City centre this evening. In general, the bus would force it's way in, or I'd stop (in primary) to allow them out.