Flat pedal moment

[Davidc]

I am amazed! There is/was little point in using straps with clips if you didn't tighten them each time you used them.

I'll carry on adjusting them as I was shown by a top pro many years ago when I did time trials thanks.

 

[tyred]

I've often wondered about the advice to pull straps really tight. Surely you risk cutting off circulation in your feet?

 

[threebikesmcginty]

I'll carry on adjusting them as I was shown by a top pro many years ago when I did time trials thanks.

If you tied a piece of string to the end of one of the straps and then under the shoe, over the crossbar, under the other shoe and then tied the string to the end of the other strap you could tighten the straps by pulling on the string which is conveniently looped over the bar. I think I'm on to something here...

 

[MacB]

Integrated brake/gear systems are also expensive, restrict the choice of brake lever, mechanically complex, prone to dirt and wear, and have safety issues with standing on the pedals of a badly adjusted system and crushing your nuts on the top tube when the indexing is off and the chain slips. But you don't see great long threads about "exploding the myth of sti". It's obvious that your feet aren't attached to the pedals, but you do seem to have a bee firmly ensconced in your bonnet here. Get a sense of proportion, ffs

It is precisely a sense of proportion that's being discussed, ask about most other bike parts and you'll get balanced responses. But pedals, and skinny tyres, seem to be in a world of their own. Everything will be so much better, you'll be faster and you'll enjoy your cycling much more, it's not a little difference it's like night and day. To be frank, as opposed to being Pussy Potsy's Patsy, I call bullshit on that, not the idea that there's a difference but that it is as marked, and as one sided, as claims make out. I also call bullshit on the idea that anyone not slurping the coolade is just doing it wrong.

Show me some real world data that supports these outrageous claims. Let me see the stats showing number of clipless moments versus number of injuries/deaths via clipless moments. Produce the evidence for the terrible dangers faced by feet slipping on flat pedals. Get some average cyclists and produce their stats with/without clipless pedals and with varying tyre sizes. Measure the size of their smiles after each ride to judge their happiness quotient.

One of the frequent arguments is that the pros use these systems and they wouldn't use something that didn't work. That's quite correct but your average cyclist is so far removed from pro level that comparisons are laughable. If it makes a 10% difference to a pro then your average cyclist would be unlikely to see as much as a 1% difference. Another argument is for safety, your feet don't slip, well plenty of people manage flat pedals without feet slipping, they ride accordingly. That's without accounting for the fact that clipless moments are expected and are not always the 'hilarious' incidents you could be led to believe.

This isn't myth busting, it's discussing the pros and cons of bike parts and should be treated the same as you would all the other bike parts, with a rational look at what you actually get.

 

[youngoldbloke]

I've often wondered about the advice to pull straps really tight. Surely you risk cutting off circulation in your feet?

You soon learn how tight - it's a bit like tying up your shoe laces really.

 

[youngoldbloke]

It is precisely a sense of proportion that's being discussed, ask about most other bike parts and you'll get balanced responses. But pedals, and skinny tyres, seem to be in a world of their own. .......

You have forgotten scary narrow saddles 'like razor blades', and mudguards, and, and .....

 

[Davidc]

I've often wondered about the advice to pull straps really tight. Surely you risk cutting off circulation in your feet?

Done correctly they should never be tight. They should be tightened so that there is no movement relative to the pedal if you try to move your foot upwards, but with no tension in the strap. The shoe is then just secured.

Proper cycling shoes for use with them also have a small ridge so that a definite rearward force is needed to pull the foot out of the clip, but I don't think you can get them any more. They do not have cleats, but do have a section of hard leather under the sole where they meet the pedal. Those shoes are actually worse to walk in than cleated ones - you just fall over they're so slippery.

If the strap is correctly passed through the buckle then it can be tightened by pulling it through, but the strap can't get looser without squeezing the two sides of the buckle together, so once set it doesn't normally need resetting.

 

[MacB]

You have forgotten scary narrow saddles 'like razor blades', and mudguards, and, and .....

nope, I see rational responses on all other bike parts, generally along the lines of this is what you get, this is the payoff and the ultimate choice is yours. But suggest larger tyres or flat pedals and you get a whole load of old tosh washed down with a gallon of coolade.

 

[NorrisCole]

One of the frequent arguments is that the pros use these systems and they wouldn't use something that didn't work. That's quite correct but your average cyclist is so far removed from pro level that comparisons are laughable. If it makes a 10% difference to a pro then your average cyclist would be unlikely to see as much as a 1% difference. Another argument is for safety, your feet don't slip, well plenty of people manage flat pedals without feet slipping, they ride accordingly. That's without accounting for the fact that clipless moments are expected and are not always the 'hilarious' incidents you could be led to believe.

Show me some real world data that supports these outrageous claims.

 

[MacB]

Show me some real world data that supports these outrageous claims.

is the whole point Norris, do keep up at the back

 

[threebikesmcginty]

There's a spreadsheet in there somewhere, MacB, I'll kick off with some data...

I have five bicycles. Three have flat pedals (no clips/straps). Two have 'clipless' (Eggbeaters and SPD).
The tyre size ranges from 23mm to 45mm.

I enjoy riding all of them and I have fallen off most of them although only one hilarious clipless moment(TM)

Stick that in your SPSS!

 

[NorrisCole]

is the whole point Norris, do keep up at the back

I was trying to make the point that in your defence of flat pedals you made equally unsubstantiated claims about clipless pedals.

Anyway, if your happy with flats, I'm happy with clipless, the important thing is we're all riding

 

[Davidc]

If you tied a piece of string to the end of one of the straps and then under the shoe, over the crossbar, under the other shoe and then tied the string to the end of the other strap you could tighten the straps by pulling on the string which is conveniently looped over the bar. I think I'm on to something here...

If you tied it off cleverly you could make them tighten and loosen as the pedals went round, allowing more movement for the foot not pushing downwards at the time. Just think how that would improve comfort!

Anyway, if your happy with flats, I'm happy with clipless, the important thing is we're all riding

Careful, you're saying things no-one's likely to disagree with and we can't have that at this stage on a thread like this one!

 

[youngoldbloke]

Proper cycling shoes for use with them also have a small ridge so that a definite rearward force is needed to pull the foot out of the clip, but I don't think you can get them any more. They do not have cleats, but do have a section of hard leather under the sole where they meet the pedal. Those shoes are actually worse to walk in than cleated ones - you just fall over they're so slippery.

Interesting site here - from Speedplay pedal museum My link History of clips and straps AND cleats - made from leather, metal and plastic. I used alloy ones, which were nailed to the sole using short tacks. I still have a pair of shoes with the ridged soles - in fact a number of parallel ridges to allow for different foot placement. These date from the mid 90s, and I use them now on the spinning bikes at the gym.

 

[tyred]

It is precisely a sense of proportion that's being discussed, ask about most other bike parts and you'll get balanced responses. But pedals, and skinny tyres, seem to be in a world of their own. Everything will be so much better, you'll be faster and you'll enjoy your cycling much more, it's not a little difference it's like night and day. To be frank, as opposed to being Pussy Potsy's Patsy, I call bullshit on that, not the idea that there's a difference but that it is as marked, and as one sided, as claims make out. I also call bullshit on the idea that anyone not slurping the coolade is just doing it wrong.

Show me some real world data that supports these outrageous claims. Let me see the stats showing number of clipless moments versus number of injuries/deaths via clipless moments. Produce the evidence for the terrible dangers faced by feet slipping on flat pedals. Get some average cyclists and produce their stats with/without clipless pedals and with varying tyre sizes. Measure the size of their smiles after each ride to judge their happiness quotient.

One of the frequent arguments is that the pros use these systems and they wouldn't use something that didn't work. That's quite correct but your average cyclist is so far removed from pro level that comparisons are laughable. If it makes a 10% difference to a pro then your average cyclist would be unlikely to see as much as a 1% difference. Another argument is for safety, your feet don't slip, well plenty of people manage flat pedals without feet slipping, they ride accordingly. That's without accounting for the fact that clipless moments are expected and are not always the 'hilarious' incidents you could be led to believe.

This isn't myth busting, it's discussing the pros and cons of bike parts and should be treated the same as you would all the other bike parts, with a rational look at what you actually get.

That's my take on it too.


I will continue to ride my steel frames (one of them hi-ten with chrome wheels, oh the shame!), complete with 32mm tyres pumped up to 70-80psi (never had a pinch flat) and leather saddles, friction shifters and flat pedals with or without toe clips because it works for me and I find it all very comfortable and suitable for the type of riding I do. I'm not competing in a race. Also, I'm not exactly rich and it helps keep the budget under control and I also take more pleasure from restoring old bikes than I ever will from riding. If I change or upgrade components, it's because I want to and not because it's the latest fashionable, must have accessory.