EV Owners Thread

[FishFright]

The official UK future energy scenarios forsee heroic quantities of central hydrogen storage in underground caverns


https://www.neso.energy/future-energy-scenarios-eso-pathways-net-zero-2024

Basically it's almost all going to be the mostly electricity and batteries with hydrogen as plan B just in case (as long as those pesky bonds are ignored and/or called called future technology.)

That has some real pearlers e.g. "Hydrogen Evolution sees natural gas still used to produce hydrogen via methane reformation" , tearing up £50 notes again.

I really hope that's just puffery for public consumption and not actual planning.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Basically it's almost all going to be the mostly electricity and batteries with hydrogen as plan B just in case (as long as those pesky bonds are ignored and/or called called future technology.)

That has some real pearlers e.g. "Hydrogen Evolution sees natural gas still used to produce hydrogen via methane reformation" , tearing up £50 notes again.

I really hope that's just puffery for public consumption and not actual planning.

Nope. AIUI most hydrogen will be "blue" for a decade or two to come. Scenarios at 2050 can contain significant blue hydrogen + CCS.

 

[FishFright]

Nope. AIUI most hydrogen will be "blue" for a decade or two to come. Scenarios at 2050 can contain significant blue hydrogen + CCS.

So part of the amazing plan is to take a diminishing supply of one gas with a lot of available energy , then turn it into another gas containing less energy at a higher cost and while using even more energy to make this happen?

ETA Then spend even more energy to store the carbon produced with the above process ??
ETA2 The hydrogen produced will need a complete new infrastructure to store and transport it .

I really hope I'm completely wrong as that sounds insane.

 

[Gillstay]

Hydrogen will be far more expensive than filling your car with electricity.
We can already see EVs that have price parity with petrol cars.
Where is the hydrogen car that's anywhere near the price of a budget petrol car ?
And then you want people to pay for the fuel.
Figure I've seen is a 60 mile journey would cost about £11.00

That would be about £1.35 for me in an EV.

If hydrogen is part of the answer - why was the Toyota Mirai not a success ? Why have numbers of hydrogen filling stations fallen ?

If I can get a tank of hydrogen to fit in my classic car boot, then I can run it as it is. So it will cost a bit more. Not bothered. Why would I want other people to pay for it. Makes no sense.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

So part of the amazing plan is to take a diminishing supply of one gas with a lot of available energy , then turn it into another gas containing less energy at a higher cost and while using even more energy to make this happen?

ETA Then spend even more energy to store the carbon produced with the above process ??
ETA2 The hydrogen produced will need a complete new infrastructure to store and transport it .

I really hope I'm completely wrong as that sounds insane.

You're mainly right, except the plan isn't to transport the hydrogen, just to convert it back to electricity when the wind isn't blowing in winter.

 

[icowden]

If I can get a tank of hydrogen to fit in my classic car boot, then I can run it as it is. So it will cost a bit more. Not bothered. Why would I want other people to pay for it. Makes no sense.

Actually that *is* one very sensible use for hydrogen

 

[Gunk]

Finally joined the dark side, today I’ve ordered a Cupra Born 169kW V3 77kWh to replace our 9 year old 130,000 mile Golf GTD.

Really looking forward to it!

 

[Gillstay]

Looks like Toyota are really going to go for hydrogen cartridges . Could be very interesting.

 

[albion]

https://chinahydrogen.substack.com/p/china-started-construction-of-its

Looks a main place to store their 2.5GW green hydrogen production.

 

[the snail]

They turn turbines off at the moment.
A 100% loss.

You're not losing anything, wind doesn't cost anything.

 

[figbat]

You're not losing anything, wind doesn't cost anything.

Those turbines grow on trees then?

 

[the snail]

Those turbines grow on trees then?

The turbine will still be there tomorrow when the wind is blowing. Some people advocate installing a big overcapacity of renewables to cover requirements at peak demand, which gives large surplus at other times that can be used for making hydrogen for fertiliser production etc.

 

[figbat]

The turbine will still be there tomorrow when the wind is blowing. Some people advocate installing a big overcapacity of renewables to cover requirements at peak demand, which gives large surplus at other times that can be used for making hydrogen for fertiliser production etc.

Indeed, but to your point "You're not losing anything, wind doesn't cost anything", having a significant capital investment on the books sitting idle is still a 'cost' to the owner or operator.

 

[icowden]

They turn turbines off at the moment.
A 100% loss.

That isn't true. Turbines get turned off for safety (wind speed too high) , environmental challenges (migratory birds) and if the wind is too low. If they are generating more electricity than is being needed then the output is routed to the interconnectors and sold to other countries. We used to be part of SDAC which was a very efficient way of doing that. Thanks to Brexit we are no longer part of SDAC and the energy goes to open auction where dealers guess whether it will be there. This is very inefficient and often leads to waste capacity.

https://modoenergy.com/research/mar...tion-battery-energy-storage-implicit-explicit

Add to that vital infrastructure upgrades to allow National Grid to move power from one part of the country to another and you have a lot of wasted energy and therefore wasted cash.

 

[albion]

'Not true apart from when it is true'.
There is not enough cable south to deal with Scottish wind at full c.apacity