EV Owners Thread

[FishFright]

https://www.rystadenergy.com/news/china-hydrogen-targets
'China is targeting green hydrogen production of 200,000 tpa by the end of 2025, but our analysis shows it will exceed that volume by the end of this year. '
But !
https://www.euractiv.com/section/en...-china-dilemma-amid-flagging-hydrogen-dreams/

They aren't planning to fuel cars with it though.

 

[albion]

You cannot force 100% EV without hydrogen being in the equation, as already said to the sceptics by markemark and figbat.

 

[FishFright]

You cannot force 100% EV without hydrogen being in the equation, as already said to the sceptics.

Why ? For private transport it makes no sense . You cannot get away from the amount of energy needed to produce it and then create a brand new infrastructure. Compare this to merely increasing electricity production.

Hydrogen only solves one problem the refueling time and one can see that the EV owners on here et al don't find it a problem that needs solving right now.

 

[icowden]

Hydrogen only solves one problem the refueling time and one can see that the EV owners on here et al don't find it a problem that needs solving right now.

It's also not necessarily a problem that needs solving with hydrogen or at all. Battery manufacturers are trying to make higher capacity batteries with faster recharging rates and the technology is improving rapidly thanks to demand driving the research.

If you have a battery range of 1000 miles, is it a problem if it takes 6 hours to recharge? Almost certainly not.

 

[albion]

Hydrogen will produce electricity using hydrogen produced from the excess wind and solar to be used when solar and wind sources are in their predictable lulls.
Whilst there is massive development in China, it developing very slowly here and in the EU.

 

[figbat]

 

[FishFright]

Hydrogen will produce electricity using hydrogen produced from the excess wind and solar to be used when solar and wind sources are in their predictable lulls.
Whilst there is massive development in China, it developing very slowly here and in the EU.

Do you burn £50 notes to save £10 off your gas bill ?

Batteries already and will always do that job better than Hydrogen conversions can ever do. The reasons why have been mentioned already today on here .

 

[Tenkaykev]

https://www.rystadenergy.com/news/china-hydrogen-targets
'China is targeting green hydrogen production of 200,000 tpa by the end of 2025, but our analysis shows it will exceed that volume by the end of this year. '
But !
https://www.euractiv.com/section/en...-china-dilemma-amid-flagging-hydrogen-dreams/

https://www.carboncommentary.com/blog/2021/6/11/some-rules-of-thumb-of-the-hydrogen-economy

4, How much electrical energy does it take to make a kilogramme of hydrogen in an electrolyser? A survey of the major manufacturers suggests a figure of about 50 kWh at present for both Alkaline and PEM electrolysers. Put an energy value of 50 kWh of electricity in and get hydrogen out with an energy value of 33.3 kWh, or 67% efficiency. Alkaline and PEM electrolysers offer performance of this level but Solid Oxide electrolysers already offer 80% conversion of electricity to hydrogen. But they need substantial sources of external heat.

As I read it you take 50kWh of Electricity and instead of using the electricity to power a motor with > 90% efficiency you use it to produce Hydrogen with an energy value of 33.3kWh. You then use that hydrogen in a Hydrogen fuel cell with an efficiency of 40-80% to end up with about half the available energy than if you'd not bothered.

 

[albion]

https://news.sky.com/story/britons-...power-they-make-on-the-windiest-days-12822156

Solves much of that problem. In fact they are experimenting with producing hydrogen at the wind turbine.
Also, transit wastage from power station to home can be as much as 40%

 

[presta]

It's like comparing a rotary dial Bakelite telephone with a smartphone. They are both able to perform the function of a phone, but they are vastly different technologies. You don't *need* to be able to recharge an EV in 2 minutes because that use case is so incredibly small. It's a tiny outlier compared to normal use.

Over 90% of my mileage was done between Essex and places like the Lake District, home charging is no use if the battery runs out half way up the A1. There's a couple of chargers in the station car park here, whenever I've been past the spaces are always being blocked by cars not using them. I wonder how many miles a battery will do queueing on a 1 in 3 to get over Hard Knott & Wrynose, hopefully they won't be putting any chargers up there. If my house flooded tomorrow that would be a tiny fraction of the flood-free 64 years I've been here, but I still wouldn't be waiting around for it to happen again. I use a dumb phone because the 'benefit' of a pocket full of needless technology isn't worth all the disadvantages of a smartphone.

There are actually more EV charge points that petrol stations in the UK.

There aren't more chargers than petrol pumps, and each petrol pump can refuel hundreds of cars in the time it takes a charger to do just one.

Electric cars need to come, but they could do to address the friction in owning one, and it still doesn't do anything to reduce car dependency and congestion.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Also, transit wastage from power station to home can be as much as 40%

For electricity? Citation please!

Energy is lost during transportation from production to consumption. Electricity distribution losses on average account for 8% of transported volumes, and vary between 3.1% to 10% for the individual DNOs

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmselect/cmenergy/386/38607.html

 

[albion]

Seems it is about 8% overall.
And we lose double the amount we actually import.

Add the wind turbines turned off at peak sumner and things can look way higher.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

And we lose double the amount we actually import.

No idea what you mean by that

 

[albion]

No idea what you mean by that

25 terawatt-hours lost ......... Any ideas yet?

 

[FishFright]

25 terawatt-hours lost ......... Any ideas yet?

Source please