Electric scooters.

[classic33]

Do you think the same should be true for e-bikes? If not, why not?

Do you?

E-bikes are already subject to those.
E-assist bikes have had a minimum age limit since they were introduced.

And the possibility of e-assist bikes falling under the same rules, as e-scooters has been raised.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Electric scooter rider, 14, admits causing woman's death.
BBC, here.
Sentencing is scheduled for 8 March. Apparently she 'was on the pavement ... when she was hit by the privately-owned vehicle.' The boy in question remained at the scene and called emergency services.

 

[icowden]

E-bikes are already subject to those.

Where do you get your e-bike MOTd then? And how are the mandatory insurance checks done? I've had an e-bike and so has my mother-in-law. I don't recall needing insurance, license plates or MOTs,

E-assist bikes have had a minimum age limit since they were introduced.

I didn't ask about those.

And the possibility of e-assist bikes falling under the same rules, as e-scooters has been raised.

Again. How is an e-scooter limited to 15mph any different from an e-bike?

 

[icowden]

Electric scooter rider, 14, admits causing woman's death.
BBC, here.
Sentencing is scheduled for 8 March. Apparently she 'was on the pavement ... when she was hit by the privately-owned vehicle.' The boy in question remained at the scene and called emergency services.

Yep it's very sad. This will shock you but some 14 year-olds ride their bikes on the pavement too. The kid was clearly not looking where he was going and this was a very unfortunate event. I'm not sure it therefore follows that all e-scooters should be banned,

I constantly hear the same arguments about e-scooters that you hear about cyclists. The amazing bit is that it's often the cyclists that are making them, rather than the motorists.

 

[classic33]

Where do you get your e-bike MOTd then? And how are the mandatory insurance checks done? I've had an e-bike and so has my mother-in-law. I don't recall needing insurance, license plates or MOTs,

Bought new, you go through the same process as you would a car.
You're admitting to using an illegal vehicle? That's what EBikes are, unless you have the required paperwork. Or do you mean an e-assist bike. Legally they aren't the same.
MOT would have to be done at a place that can deal with ebikes. Just like finding one that can deal with motorbikes and not motor cars.

I didn't ask about those.

You asked about an illegal vehicle, that you've since admitted to using illegally.

Again. How is an e-scooter limited to 15mph any different from an e-bike?

Legally, private e-scooters are just as illegal as ebikes. So there's no difference in their legal status.
You're just too idle to provide your own effort in moving either vehicle.

 

[classic33]

Yep it's very sad. This will shock you but some 14 year-olds ride their bikes on the pavement too. The kid was clearly not looking where he was going and this was a very unfortunate event. I'm not sure it therefore follows that all e-scooters should be banned,

I constantly hear the same arguments about e-scooters that you hear about cyclists. The amazing bit is that it's often the cyclists that are making them, rather than the motorists.

Major difference, the legal age for e-scooters is 18, where they're part of a trial scheme.

Both bikes and e-scooters are road vehicles, by law, but only the bike is a legal road vehicle.

Rider was under age, riding on the pavement and without the required paperwork. As required by law. And also driving/riding whilst under the legal age. So even if it had been one of the e-scooters involved in one if the trial schemes, the underwriters of these schemes wouldn't be liable.

The MIB do not cover any of the current e-scooter trials, and do not want to be involved in them should they become legal for road use. For many of the reasons raised in this thread.

 

[icowden]

Bought new, you go through the same process as you would a car.

Isn't it odd though:
What would you call this?
https://www.fullycharged.com/Desiknio-SP-Urban-Comfort

Fully Charged call it an e-bike.

Or what about BikeRadar?
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/what-is-an-electric-bike/

An electric bike, or ebike, is a bicycle equipped with an electric bike motor to assist you when you’re pedalling. The motor will get its power from a rechargeable battery mounted on the bike.

To classify as an ebike, the motor has to help you rather than propel you on its own. As a result, you need to pedal to get that assistance. How much power the motor delivers is regulated based on how hard you are pedalling and the level of support you have selected.

So most of the UK is talking about pedal assist ebikes when they use the word "e-bike" as the vast majority of e-bikes are legal and use pedal assist.
Those which don't require pedal assist are largely illegal.

The Government only mandate and MOT for Motorcycles and Cars. HGVs require an Annual Test. An e-bike without pedal assist is a Motorcycle.

 

[icowden]

Major difference, the legal age for e-scooters is 18, where they're part of a trial scheme.

Yep, because the Government is slow and massively out of touch. The fact is that you can buy electric scooters legally and people do buy them and use them, whether adult or child.

Rider was under age, riding on the pavement and without the required paperwork. As required by law. And also driving/riding whilst under the legal age. So even if it had been one of the e-scooters involved in one if the trial schemes, the underwriters of these schemes wouldn't be liable.

All true. But the same would be true if he was on a bike or e- bike.

The reason that scooters are being treated weirdly is because the road traffic act was drafted before electrically propelled vehicles were common. They are now common and legislation has failed to keep pace. You can't put the genie back in the lamp.

Idiots on the other hand, are idiots.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Yep it's very sad. This will shock you but some 14 year-olds ride their bikes on the pavement too. The kid was clearly not looking where he was going and this was a very unfortunate event. I'm not sure it therefore follows that all e-scooters should be banned,

I constantly hear the same arguments about e-scooters that you hear about cyclists. The amazing bit is that it's often the cyclists that are making them, rather than the motorists.

Umm, I didn't say, or even suggest, any of what you seem to be 'drawing as a conclusion' to my post, which contained no opinion whatsoever . Neither did I indicate any lack of knowledge on my part about the behaviour of cyclists - I am one of them and I ride on the pavement at times.

The 14yo clearly has a lot more sense of responsibility and ownership of his actions than do some car drivers - the ones who commit the hit-and-runs which make the headlines.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Rider was under age, riding on the pavement and without the required paperwork. As required by law. And also driving/riding whilst under the legal age. So even if it had been one of the e-scooters involved in one if the trial schemes, the underwriters of these schemes wouldn't be liable.

and the response was:

All true. But the same would be true if he was on a bike or e- bike.

No, it wouldn't have all been true if he had been on a push-bike, or if he had been on a UK-legal e-bike.
There are no regulations about legal age to ride a p-bike on public roads, and no paperwork that is required to do so, either. To ride an e-bike he would only have to be 14 (I don't know if he was that age at the time of the offence) and again, no paperwork is necessary.

 

[classic33]

Isn't it odd though:
What would you call this?
https://www.fullycharged.com/Desiknio-SP-Urban-Comfort

Fully Charged call it an e-bike.

Or what about BikeRadar?
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/what-is-an-electric-bike/


So most of the UK is talking about pedal assist ebikes when they use the word "e-bike" as the vast majority of e-bikes are legal and use pedal assist.
Those which don't require pedal assist are largely illegal.

The Government only mandate and MOT for Motorcycles and Cars. HGVs require an Annual Test. An e-bike without pedal assist is a Motorcycle.

I've already pointed out the difference in
Post #316, and you've continued with the ebike theme. You're looking at the rules the wrong way round.

Those that don't have pedals, or have pedals fitted to make it look like a bicycle are illegal. Unless you have the required paperwork, and the required plate on the ebike.

Most would, by law, fall/would fall into the light moped class, not motorbike.

It's not an ebike with pedal assist, it's a pedal cycle with e-assist. "These electric bikes are known as 'electrically assisted pedal cycles' ( EAPCs )."
https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules

You don't like the rules, get off and push.

 

[captain nemo1701]

I am reminded of the stores finding loopholes for Sunday opening laws (or ignoring them completely) back in the day.

Do E-scooters have numberplates in the UK? I've mentioned before that we have private E scooters here but they are legally a "Mofa" judging by the plates which means they have insurance and you need some basic licence to drive them.

This does not explain their use on pavements though.

The Voi hire escooters do have number plates but as you can imagine, trying to read something the size of a beer mat (they are tiny) as it whooshes past you on the pavement requires the visual powers of Clark Kent.

 

[Andy in Germany]

The Voi hire escooters do have number plates but as you can imagine, trying to read something the size of a beer mat (they are tiny) as it whooshes past you on the pavement requires the visual powers of Clark Kent.

This is also a problem here, to be fair. On the other hand the system seems to have found a legal category that allows their use locally without anarchy resulting.

 

[icowden]

I've already pointed out the difference in
Post #316, and you've continued with the ebike theme. You're looking at the rules the wrong way round.

No - I'm pointing out that for the vast majority of people, and e-bike is a legal electric bike. You are wanting to split hairs around a category of e-bike which is pretty much illegal in the UK and Europe and therefore irrelevant.

An e-scooter will be treated much the same as a pedal assist e-bike. It would be pointless to require insurance, MOT etc as millions are now in private hands. The vast majority of people using escooters don't knock down pedestrians, in the same way that the vast majority of cyclists don't.

 

[vickster]

Electric Assist bikes (private or rented) are legal to use on the road, cycle paths, shared paths in the UK…privately owned e-scooters currently aren’t regardless of whether companies are profiting from their sale. By claiming to tell buyers they can’t be legally used in any public place, they have covered their backsides and the onus is on the user.

The law is as it is, like it or not. If people choose to use them illegally (it’s not hard to find the rules) and get caught or worse injure someone, then they should face whatever legal action is in place.