Electric scooters.

[icowden]

The dropping of the insurance requirement won't happen, should they be made legal following the trials. It's part of the reason for having trials in the first place. See what is required, two of those being the license requirement and the insurance. The owners of the scooters used in the trials are already known, and on record. Ownership of the private ones will have to be established, beyond doubt, so will require registration(just the same as those used in the trials). At which point you'll be charged VED, which if current plans for electric vehicles to be liable for it from 2025 onwards will also include electric scooters.

Lets wait and see but if that happens expect an immediate legal challenge on the basis that there is one rule for ebikes and another for escooters. The genie is already out of the bottle.

 

[midlife]

Lets wait and see but if that happens expect an immediate legal challenge on the basis that there is one rule for ebikes and another for escooters. The genie is already out of the bottle.

Just out of curiosity as I don't know, can you have e-bikes that have no pedalling function (that otherwise have a speed and power limit like an ebike with pedals).

I'm not part of the discussion just curious....

 

[classic33]

Lets wait and see but if that happens expect an immediate legal challenge on the basis that there is one rule for ebikes and another for escooters. The genie is already out of the bottle.

Possible changes in 2025 for e-assist users as well. Ebikes are already subject to the same rules as an IC motorbike. Being electric doesn't change the status of a vehicle.

 

[classic33]

Just out of curiosity as I don't know, can you have e-bikes that have no pedalling function (that otherwise have a speed and power limit like an ebike with pedals).

I'm not part of the discussion just curious....

Not legally. They are subject to the same rules as an IC powered motorbike. As is the rider.

Because they're electrically powered, doesn't change the fact that both are classed as motor vehicles, neither falling under the EPAC rules or mobility carriage rules and regulations.

The only difference between an e-assist bike and ebike/electric scooter is the age requirement, 14 not 16 years minimum age.

 

[PK99]

12 year old died today collided with a bus.

Stupid parents

 

[PK99]

Maybe this is why the introduction of VED on electric vehicles is being started in 2025.

that is because of the loss of revenue from VED. The nudge from 0% VED to encourage E-car switch is seen as no longer necessary and VED switches back to charge for access to the road system.

 

[PK99]

And just like some car drivers, who seem to think that the laws that apply to everyone else on the roads but them, I don't like electric scooter users either. For the same reason, "the law doesn't apply to them/I can do what I want". Everyone else can get out of my way.

Just like some cyclists. I have been hit by cyclists on the pavement twice recently when I chose to stand my ground rather than dodge out of their way*. I also came with a cm or two (close enough to feel the passing wind) of a pavement Lime e-bike riding at full tilt down St John's hill toward Clapham Junction

* In future, I may well find myself waving my arms to protect myself when so startled...

 

[classic33]

Just like some cyclists. I have been hit by cyclists on the pavement twice recently when I chose to stand my ground rather than dodge out of their way*. I also came with a cm or two (close enough to feel the passing wind) of a pavement Lime e-bike riding at full tilt down St John's hill toward Clapham Junction

* In future, I may well find myself waving my arms to protect myself when so startled...

I didn't mention those because I felt they had already been mentioned. But it is a valid point, a road vehicle being used on the pavement. Because they can!

 

[postman]

my mate has rung today,he has been run down and injured by a numpty on a scooter,he was riding on the pavement he hit my mates back legs,he fell on to his shoulder which only two months ago a leeds hospital stitched his tendons back.Its in a mess.The guy tried to get away,two people stopped him he tried to fight, one chap lamped him.My mate wont tell me anymore.My mate says xmas is going to be difficult with mobility.

 

[captain nemo1701]

I have to say that these sound like *exactly* the same arguments you hear regarding yoofs on bicycles. Why not just say that you don't like and don't approve of e-scooters?

It's not going to make a difference as they are here to stay, but legislation will be passed which limits speed and takes away the need for insurance, helmet etc because just like bikes, it's unenforceable.

Regarding 'yoof' on bikes on the pavement, yes illegal too but worth noting that now we have an escooter seemingly endless 'trial' here, said 'yoof' is now on escooters, private & hired, whizzing round everywhere, earbuds in listening to the latest playlist. It increases risk for pedestrians because these things are virtually silent - a pigeon farting is louder - and literally zoom in and out of people on the pavements mainly because they are afraid of the roads.

Plus, they undermine the council's 'active Transport' policy of encouraging people to exercise by walking or cycling. But now...hey kids, don't do that hard stuff like pedalling or putting one foot in front of another, jump on an escooter instead....Transport for the convenience addicted society we find ourselves in, IMHO, jumped up toys for those who insist on avoiding any effort.

I saw three guys on the pavement, two walking, third wobbling about on an escooter trying to go as slow as his walking pals. Wondered if his legs didn't work for some reason.... They also have a habit of jumping onto the pavements to circumvent red lights too. Yes, the 21st century RLJ'ers are escooterists. Gotta hand it to them its creative using the pavement. Seen it a few times, the rapid acceleration seems to encourage risk taking.

 

[KnittyNorah]

A set of standard sounds are being tested at Salford Uni for use on e-scooters; there are concerns the virtually silent motors of e-scooters can make them dangerous for pedestrians. Robin Spinks of the Royal National Institute of Blind People said it can be "terrifying" for blind or partially sighted people when electric vehicles were used "irresponsibly".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-63874621

As a formerly severely visually -impaired person, I can only agree from the depths of my soul about the terror of feeling constantly under threat on the sole supposedly-safe place one can be ie the pavement.

 

[classic33]

A set of standard sounds are being tested at Salford Uni for use on e-scooters; there are concerns the virtually silent motors of e-scooters can make them dangerous for pedestrians. Robin Spinks of the Royal National Institute of Blind People said it can be "terrifying" for blind or partially sighted people when electric vehicles were used "irresponsibly".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-63874621

As a formerly severely visually -impaired person, I can only agree from the depths of my soul about the terror of feeling constantly under threat on the sole supposedly-safe place one can be ie the pavement.

They shouldn't be on the pavements, even shared use ones where a "cycle lane" has been placed. They are legally road vehicles, motorised which means they shouldn't be used in cycle lanes either.

 

[KnittyNorah]

They shouldn't be on the pavements, even shared use ones where a "cycle lane" has been placed. They are legally road vehicles, motorised which means they shouldn't be used in cycle lanes either.

Of course they are road vehicles, but these after-the-fact attempts to mitigate their (obvious to any sensible person) danger to pedestrians who are using footways indicates to me that TPTB have effectively accepted their presence in pedestrian-only areas and really care not one whit about the safety of most vulnerable pedestrians of all - the blind, the visually-impaired and those with low mobility and agility.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Here we go :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63911473

Who has the 'right' to cause fear and alarm to a fully-registered guidedog and its person, going about their normal daily business? E-scooterists, it would seem.
If these yobs were deliberately running up behind blind people and their guide dogs walking along the pavement, giving the person a shove and the dog a kick such as to alarm them - and possibly harm them - for no reason other than selfish laziness and amusement, there would, I hope, be action taken. Yet this continued and growing form of abuse seems to be widely accepted and the reaction of most seems to be a shrug of the shoulders.

 

[icowden]

Who has the 'right' to cause fear and alarm to a fully-registered guidedog and its person, going about their normal daily business? E-scooterists, it would seem.

Absolutely but don't get me started on those cyclists.
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/e-bikes-left-on-pavements-causing-havoc-for-blind-people/
They are just awful people.
https://www.eta.co.uk/2021/07/06/cy...ements-on-condition-they-do-so-considerately/#
They just go around threatening blind people.
https://www.rnib.org.uk/news/new-cy...-sight-loss-and-other-disabilities-in-danger/

Then again, maybe some pedestrians ought to be banned as well:
https://londonist.com/london/technology/walking-while-looking-at-your-phone
https://www.nationalworld.com/news/...of-phone-dangers-while-crossing-roads-3568914

Still for balance we must also recognise what a scourge blind people are:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/disability-34855311

Amie Slavin in Lincoln is a regular white cane user. "I've done lots of small things, I've tapped people's ankles and slipped my cane between their feet. A cane by its very nature has to impinge on people's space because you use it to scope out the ground around you and if it's full of people then your cane will be exploring the ground they're trying to stand on."
Others have more unfortunate stories. "I flattened an old lady once," says Mark fielding from Blackpool, "in fact I've flattened a couple of people with my white stick.
"I remember one in Walkden. I turned out of a shop and this old lady certainly wasn't paying attention. My cane went between her legs and as her right leg came forward it hit against the stick and she went flying over it. She hurt herself badly. Somebody called an ambulance and she was taken to hospital. I felt quite guilty about that one."

So maybe the issue isn't cyclists, or e-scooterists or blind people. Maybe the issue is just care and courtesy (and possibly common sense)?

PS: Your question doesn't seem to be related to the BBC article. No one is suggesting that anyone has the automatic right to harass or cause fear and alarm.