Electric scooters.

[classic33]

No - I'm pointing out that for the vast majority of people, and e-bike is a legal electric bike. You are wanting to split hairs around a category of e-bike which is pretty much illegal in the UK and Europe and therefore irrelevant.

An e-scooter will be treated much the same as a pedal assist e-bike. It would be pointless to require insurance, MOT etc as millions are now in private hands. The vast majority of people using escooters don't knock down pedestrians, in the same way that the vast majority of cyclists don't.

What you think it is and what the law says it is are two very different things. The law clearly says electric assisted pedal cycle, not pedal assist electric bike. That's where we get the "E" in e-assist from.

Private e-scooters remain illegal in the UK, as are hoverboards(Remember them?). The difference being they are a category/class of road vehicle. The trial e-scooters have been classified as road vehicles, not footpath vehicles.

 

[captain nemo1701]

No - I'm pointing out that for the vast majority of people, and e-bike is a legal electric bike. You are wanting to split hairs around a category of e-bike which is pretty much illegal in the UK and Europe and therefore irrelevant.

An e-scooter will be treated much the same as a pedal assist e-bike. It would be pointless to require insurance, MOT etc as millions are now in private hands. The vast majority of people using escooters don't knock down pedestrians, in the same way that the vast majority of cyclists don't.

Every time I see someone on an escooter on the pavement it just looks very, very lazy. They can't be bothered to walk, its too hard & slow for the poor things. I get that but I don't get why anyone would need to go at 15-20mph on a pavement. The poor little 'micro mobility generation' seem afraid of roads but in their addiction to convenience culture, they have brought another risk factor onto pavements.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I do wonder sometimes if the lack of legislation allowing private e-scooters has to do with the state of the roads

The main through road I use to get anywhere is in a terrible state due to constant heavy lorries from a golf course 'restoration' - as a result the road is covered in very rough parts and potholes that are not quite big enough for the counsel to fix
Cars just feel a bit bumpy - bikes find it difficult and dodgy due to gravel - a scooter, with its smaller wheels - would be in serious danger of crashing

and if they crash due to the state of the road then the counsel could be help liable so they would have to up the amount they spend of keeping roads in a better state

 

[cougie uk]

Every time I see someone on an escooter on the pavement it just looks very, very lazy. They can't be bothered to walk, its too hard & slow for the poor things. I get that but I don't get why anyone would need to go at 15-20mph on a pavement. The poor little 'micro mobility generation' seem afraid of roads but in their addiction to convenience culture, they have brought another risk factor onto pavements.

I would be amazed if anyone could do 20mph on the pavement by me. Very bumpy.
Do you think the same of car drivers though ? They can't be bothered to walk etc etc.

 

[classic33]

I would be amazed if anyone could do 20mph on the pavement by me. Very bumpy.
Do you think the same of car drivers though ? They can't be bothered to walk etc etc.

Even 10mph on the pavement would be a big enough difference between the average walking speed and an e-scooter on the footpath.

 

[classic33]

I do wonder sometimes if the lack of legislation allowing private e-scooters has to do with the state of the roads

The main through road I use to get anywhere is in a terrible state due to constant heavy lorries from a golf course 'restoration' - as a result the road is covered in very rough parts and potholes that are not quite big enough for the counsel to fix
Cars just feel a bit bumpy - bikes find it difficult and dodgy due to gravel - a scooter, with its smaller wheels - would be in serious danger of crashing

and if they crash due to the state of the road then the counsel could be help liable so they would have to up the amount they spend of keeping roads in a better state

Someone in charge of an illegal vehicle on the road would have very little grounds, if any, to place any claim against a council for an incident on the road.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Someone in charge of an illegal vehicle on the road would have very little grounds, if any, to place any claim against a council for an incident on the road.

That happened recently. Reported in December https://www.standard.co.uk/video/ne...thole-crash-which-broke-her-leg-b1044253.html

A woman is suing Barnet council for failing to maintain a road after she hit a pothole while illegally riding her e-scooter.​

Giovanna Drago is asking for £30,000 in the October incident which broke her knee.​

Barnet council say she should get nothing as her actions were illegal with only “authorised hire scheme” scooters allowed on public highways.​

Her case is the first such to go to court and could set a precedent for future claims.​

I don't know what the outcome was (if any, yet)

 

[captain nemo1701]

I would be amazed if anyone could do 20mph on the pavement by me. Very bumpy.
Do you think the same of car drivers though ? They can't be bothered to walk etc etc.

At least they don't try to...in most cases...take the vehicle down the pavement.

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

The 'next escooter operator' (anyone think its an eternal trial?) in Bristol has promised to work with the council on parking bays in the road rather than current operator Voi whose policy appears to be just fly-tip them where you like.

We were in Oslo last week and VOI are on of the operators there for e-scooters. There were numerous scooters littering the pavements, but fortunately as the pavements are quite wide, they didn't really cause significant obstructions. I could sympathise though for any visually impaired pedestrians.

 

[PK99]

I do wonder sometimes if the lack of legislation allowing private e-scooters has to do with the state of the roads

The main through road I use to get anywhere is in a terrible state due to constant heavy lorries from a golf course 'restoration' - as a result the road is covered in very rough parts and potholes that are not quite big enough for the counsel to fix
Cars just feel a bit bumpy - bikes find it difficult and dodgy due to gravel - a scooter, with its smaller wheels - would be in serious danger of crashing

and if they crash due to the state of the road then the counsel could be help liable so they would have to up the amount they spend of keeping roads in a better state

And either cut other services or increase council tax? Remember it is YOUR money they are spending.

 

[captain nemo1701]

We were in Oslo last week and VOI are on of the operators there for e-scooters. There were numerous scooters littering the pavements, but fortunately as the pavements are quite wide, they didn't really cause significant obstructions. I could sympathise though for any visually impaired pedestrians.

Someone had a moan in Bristol. I know that road, beside the Railway Path:
bad parking again

 

[KnittyNorah]

if they crash due to the state of the road then the counsel could be help liable so they would have to up the amount they spend of keeping roads in a better state

If by 'they' you mean riders of e-scooters, I think not.
The things are - outside of official hire schemes - illegal to use on any public highway.
How and why would a council have any responsibility to ensure that its roads are safe for use by an illegal user/vehicle?

Most councils seem to feel little-to-no responsibility for ensuring that their roads are safe for use by many classes of perfectly legal users - pedestrians, wheelchair users, the blind and partially-sighted, cyclists, horseriders and horse-drawn vehicles, for instance, so why on earth anyone could possibly think they bear more responsibility towards an illegal user and vehicle than they do to legal ones, I do not know.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

If by 'they' you mean riders of e-scooters, I think not.
The things are - outside of official hire schemes - illegal to use on any public highway.
How and why would a council have any responsibility to ensure that its roads are safe for use by an illegal user/vehicle?

Most councils seem to feel little-to-no responsibility for ensuring that their roads are safe for use by many classes of perfectly legal users - pedestrians, wheelchair users, the blind and partially-sighted, cyclists, horseriders and horse-drawn vehicles, for instance, so why on earth anyone could possibly think they bear more responsibility towards an illegal user and vehicle than they do to legal ones, I do not know.

Sorry - maybe I was unclear
My point was that the counsels could be responsible IF the scooters were made legal
Nd this could be one of the things slowing down the possibility of making them legal

clearly at the moment if you fall off it is your problem as they should not be there anyway

Personally I have no idea how they could be made legal - you would need a list of regulations - like with ebikes (EPAC) and no matter what you do most owners will not know - or care - whether their machine complies or not
You could regulate the new ones sold - at least until they leave the shop
but the ones that have been around for years might not even be labelled with the correct power rating etc

Basically - without going all NACA - the regulations should have been sorted out and implemented many years ago and be for general electric personal transport devices so as to cover whatever the market comes up with next

 

[classic33]

Sorry - maybe I was unclear
My point was that the counsels could be responsible IF the scooters were made legal
Nd this could be one of the things slowing down the possibility of making them legal

clearly at the moment if you fall off it is your problem as they should not be there anyway

Personally I have no idea how they could be made legal - you would need a list of regulations - like with ebikes (EPAC) and no matter what you do most owners will not know - or care - whether their machine complies or not
You could regulate the new ones sold - at least until they leave the shop
but the ones that have been around for years might not even be labelled with the correct power rating etc

Basically - without going all NACA - the regulations should have been sorted out and implemented many years ago and be for general electric personal transport devices so as to cover whatever the market comes up with next

Most of what needs sort, regulation wise, has been covered in the ongoing trials. Some of which have been added as the trials went on.

The biggest difference between an e-assist bike and an e-scooter, is from the outset of the trials, they've been underwritten by someone other than the MIB. The MIB want to continue to have no involvement with e-scooters, should they become legal road vehicles.

They'd be classed as motor vehicles, not allowed into cycle lanes/facilities. Insurance would be mandatory, with the owner being responsible for sorting it all out before taking to the roads. Helmets and possibly indicators on the scooters, in addition to the front and rear lights would also be required. The same as any other motor vehicle.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Most of what needs sort, regulation wise, has been covered in the ongoing trials. Some of which have been added as the trials went on.

The biggest difference between an e-assist bike and an e-scooter, is from the outset of the trials, they've been underwritten by someone other than the MIB. The MIB want to continue to have no involvement with e-scooters, should they become legal road vehicles.

They'd be classed as motor vehicles, not allowed into cycle lanes/facilities. Insurance would be mandatory, with the owner being responsible for sorting it all out before taking to the roads. Helmets and possibly indicators on the scooters, in addition to the front and rear lights would also be required. The same as any other motor vehicle.

Which would be unenforceable without a lot of extra funding

or private firms making a fortune!!