Eating carbs in-ride and weight loss

[col]

Excess protein doesnt store as fat, the body gets rid of what isnt needed er naturaly

 

[lukesdad]

Excess protein doesnt store as fat, the body gets rid of what isnt needed er naturaly

Im afraid it doesn t.

 

[col]

Im afraid it doesn t.

Ok Ill stand corrected

 

[lulubel]

I'm not talking about deficits, I'm suggesting that by preventing bonk by fuelling midride, we train our bodies AWAY from fat metabolising by giving it another option. Sure the body can't convert enough fat to sugar fast enough, but I'm trying it's burning some of it, and forcing it to use that as an energy source rather than the quick fix sugar we feed it with bars, gels and drinks.

And I still say you're overcomplicating the situation. If you don't give your body enough fuel to cover your activity, it has no choice but to metabolise fat to make up the deficit. From the point of view of weight loss (which I believe is what we're discussing here) it doesn't matter whether fat metabolism takes place during the ride or at some other time, as long as it happens. If you've moved on to talk about increasing endurance, then I agree that it's important to improve your body's ability to use fat as fuel during rides.

The only thing I can think of that I've read concerning not preventing bonk is from a running perspective. Runners use the term "hitting the wall" to describe what cyclings call "bonking", and the only research that I know of (with marathon runners) found that runners who have hit the wall once have an increased likelihood of doing so again - and often at an earlier stage - in a future marathon compared to runners who have never hit the wall. This suggests that it doesn't produce any improvement in fat burning capacity, in fact probably the reverse.

 

[lukesdad]

I'm not talking about deficits, I'm suggesting that by preventing bonk by fuelling midride, we train our bodies AWAY from fat metabolising by giving it another option. Sure the body can't convert enough fat to sugar fast enough, but I'm trying it's burning some of it, and forcing it to use that as an energy source rather than the quick fix sugar we feed it with bars, gels and drinks.

Are you trying to avoid the 'Bonk' or loose weight may I ask ?

 

[MattHB]

Loose weight.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Ok Ill stand corrected

If it's not burned directly to build/repair muscle fibre/for energy a process called "gluconeogenisis" happens,this process turns protein into glucose.

The human kidneys are very efficient at preventing protein loss through urination,it's as much as myth as unicorns.

 

[MattHB]

And I still say you're overcomplicating the situation. If you don't give your body enough fuel to cover your activity, it has no choice but to metabolise fat to make up the deficit. From the point of view of weight loss (which I believe is what we're discussing here) it doesn't matter whether fat metabolism takes place during the ride or at some other time, as long as it happens. If you've moved on to talk about increasing endurance, then I agree that it's important to improve your body's ability to use fat as fuel during rides.

The only thing I can think of that I've read concerning not preventing bonk is from a running perspective. Runners use the term "hitting the wall" to describe what cyclings call "bonking", and the only research that I know of (with marathon runners) found that runners who have hit the wall once have an increased likelihood of doing so again - and often at an earlier stage - in a future marathon compared to runners who have never hit the wall. This suggests that it doesn't produce any improvement in fat burning capacity, in fact probably the reverse.

Thanks lulubel and others. I was just interested in whether you can force the body into a higher fat burning efficiency by giving it no other choice. What lulubel is saying is that it doesn't, and that by trying it can make it worse! Very I the resting science!

The good news is that I can still eat cake on rides

 

[yello]

I've said before that I don't like the 'calories in v calories out' model because it's black box. It assumes that whatever process occurs in the 'black box' is always the same, never itself influenced by variable factors. A slice of bread at 80 calories will be stored on a shelf in the body and will always be available as 80 calories of output energy. Like we have some ultra-methodical stock controller; goods in, goods out using an invariable stock control method.

True, as a model, it has an intuitive appeal. It doesn't seem like rocket science... because it isn't. It's body science. And we are all susceptible to hormonal variation. So, I feel you need to take account of some of the complexities.... sorry!

There is a naturally occurring chemical in the body, interleukin-6, that is produced during exercise (and other circumstances). Its function is varied but (and here I quote from a Cycle Active article from October 2011)...

By far the most important is a shift upwards in your muscles' ability to burn fat in preference to carbohydrate at higher exercise intensities. We're not overstating things by saying this is one of the key factors to strong riding and losing weight.

(My bold).

The article goes on to outline on you can induce the production of interleukin-6 by training to near carbohydrate depletion.

It will feel quite uncomfortable, you will feel drained at the end of it, but once you've done this training session its effects last for a very long time

So it seems that Cycling Active believe you can force the body into higher fat burning efficiency, and tinker with one of the black box processes.

I was mistaken earlier when I said Sean Yates had commented on the benefits of bonking... it was Barry Hoban!

 

[MacB]

Does it not boil down to testing your personal boundaries and then keep testing them? If your primary goal is weightloss then minimising the intake, while still aloowing you to complete the exercise, would be the goal, no?

Bonking is a truly unpleasant sensation but you would only really arrive there if you were being bloody minded and ignoring numerous signals from your body. It's more likely to occur when doing something that's destination/time orientated rather than exercise focused. As in the result, rather than the process, become primary.

There's also the fun factor, I tried to lose too much weight too quickly via cycling and, while not bonking, my commutes home were becoming progressively more unpleasant as the week progressed. After some experimentation I found a level that allowed me to fuel for the ride home without overdoing it and I, at the least, maintained my weightloss level...more importantly I vastly increased my enjoyment.

I can't provide hard and fast values for any of this as it's never done against a static background. As in I was getting fitter and lighter throughout the process and it's not possible to attribute specifics. What I would say, as an avowed lardy ass, fuelling for exercise doesn't take a lot but timing can really matter. Also carry a bag of jelly beans or similar.

 

[lulubel]

yello, I think you're missing the point with regards to weight loss. In that situation, a calorie is a calorie and it doesn't matter where it comes from. It doesn't matter if every single calorie you burned during a cycle ride came from carbohydrates as long as you consumed less calories than you needed overall, because the body would have to turn to your fat stores for energy at other times. Hence, weight loss.

So, if you're trying to lose weight, exercise is not about burning fat - it's just about burning calories. As long as you do your bit to burn the calories, your body will take care of the fat.

 

[Riverman]

Just one thing guys. Isn't it dangerous not to replenish electrolytes on a long ride? Worth bearing in mind if you plan on trying to use fat stores as a fuel for the entire ride?

Rehydration

In oral rehydration therapy, electrolyte drinks containing sodium and potassium salts replenish the body's water and electrolyte levels after dehydration caused by exercise, excessive alcohol consumption, diaphoresis, diarrhea, vomiting, intoxication or starvation. Athletes exercising in extreme conditions (for three or more hours continuously e.g. marathon or triathlon) who do not consume electrolytes risk dehydration (or hyponatremia).[1]
A simple electrolyte drink can be home-made by using the correct proportions of water, sugar, salt, salt substitute for potassium, and baking soda.[2]
Electrolytes are commonly found in fruit juices, coconut water, sports drinks, milk, and many fruits and vegetables (whole or in juice form) (e.g. potatoes, avocados).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolyte

 

[MattHB]

Just one thing guys. Isn't it dangerous not to replenish electrolytes on a long ride? Worth bearing in mind if you plan on trying to use fat stores as a fuel for the entire ride?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolyte

This I would certainly do regardless of other fuelling issues.

 

[yello]

yello, I think you're missing the point with regards to weight loss.

I'm no more missing the point than you're not actually addressing what I wrote! I was commenting on the idea that we can change body function ('black box' processes) with specific regard to burning fat in preference to carb. I didn't suggest that burning one and not the other would lead to greater or lesser weight loss.

However, I would contest the notion that "a calorie is a calorie" (outside of the obvious tautology that is!). Personally, I feel the whole idea of calorific value of any foodstuff is misleading if we're to use the same terminology/unit to describe energy burn as well. It's comparing apples to oranges. I believe it's a shorthand (like 220 - age for max heart rate) and is perhaps useful in the weight loss or diet context but does not accurately describe what happens in the body. Suffice to say, calorie counting (as it is commonly known) does not work for all people.

 

[MattHB]

I was commenting on the idea that we can change body function ('black box' processes) with specific regard to burning fat in preference to carb.

this is the very crux of what Im on about should it be possible, then although its probably impossible for me to test, I might try to string out as long as I can before refueling on rides. Obviously I dont want to be experiencing a bonk every time I go out, so Ill be careful with this, which will mean listening very carefully to the signs my body is sending. It will be interesting over time to see if my ability to last gets longer, although again, it would be hard to measure because of all the other variables.