dumbass LCC bike lane on Stratford High Street

[mjr]

Nothing made up there. Genuine risks I see and experience on segregated lanes.

Yes, they're risks, but they're not part of anyone's vision!

I realise it's a problem because I'm often trying to get things like http://pic.twitter.com/AhdxMmJHfw stopped but again we come back to more money spent on traffic policing being the thing we need most, whether we're riding on or off road.

 

[zimzum42]

Gosh, this Twitter thing has been revealing! I never knew there were these zealots out there promoting the idea of segregation so strongly. We're buggered, the way these guys are campaigning they'll probably get their way and London will ruined with a network of crappy lanes and unnecessary kerbs... :-(

 

[mjr]

If London gets "crappy lanes" then they haven't got their way (as far as I can tell, their way is decent width and good surfacing and so on). "Unnecessary kerbs"... well they should be unnecessary but motors don't stay out of bike lanes... but they still don't stay out with kerbs, as I see all too often near me, so I think I'd say superfluous kerbs...

 

[knocksofbeggarmen]

Actually, the Netherlands had been mentioned before you arrived here, but people had moved on. Then you came along and mentioned it yourself in your second post on page 10.

Your talent for exasperating sense may be accidental, but let us for our amusement retell the history with some facts left in.

You tell me London cannot have Dutch Infra because the streets are narrower in London than Dutch cities eg Utrecht etc.

I tell you that's complete tosh, as anyone with a ferry ticket and a tape measure may verify.

You then tell me that there's no call to go measuring up abroad.


Now, for the love of God, Gear Ratios and the Wiggins Sideburns, will you please tell me how you are supposed to discover whether X is or is not narrower than Y, if you make a special point of ignoring Y?

 

[knocksofbeggarmen]

Is this the Beggar Knocker's twitter profile?

https://twitter.com/AsEasyAsRiding

Seems some of us are gaining fame on the twattersphere...

I can confirm my name is not and never has been Mark Treasure.

But I enjoyed your remarkable assumption that at most one person can have anything like Mark's views.

 

[knocksofbeggarmen]

Again, whoever you are, calm down and read the words properly. I haven't had any of those exchanges with you. You just keep being rude and sarcastic. And you still haven't answered the simple question that people keep asking you.

Plural of 'you' is 'you'.

You are not answering the question. Do we have space for a complete network of segregated facilities throughout?

We have just as much space as the Netherlands- which you, singular, asserted we do not.

In saying this you, singular, stated a falsehood demonstrable as such by the use of any measuring device and ferry ticket.

Then you, singular, argued that ferry travel was entirely superflous, as you planned on comparing x and y mainly by looking at x -and carefully avoiding any examination of y.

This was the point at which I suspected you might be entirely potty (plural and singular).

 

[mjr]

Coloured tarmac, kerbs, bollards, nothing keeps motors out round here. And for the life of me I can't see what this 'cycle lane' is meant to achieve anyway.
View attachment 57891

It's a slalom bypass, isn't it? That's a whole other world of pain, so-called "traffic calming" which actually throws cyclists into manufactured conflict with other traffic. Not likely to result in good cycleways. Even if the car wasn't parked blocking it, it would probably be full of debris thrown into it by the vehicles swerving through.

 

[subaqua]

I can confirm my name is not and never has been Mark Treasure.

But I enjoyed your remarkable assumption that at most one person can have anything like Mark's views.

lots of people have the same views. they call themselves the LCC. and they claim to represent london cyclists. well sorry , but they don't represent ALL. a lot of the \lcc ideas are half baked

 

[knocksofbeggarmen]

Really? I thought DZ was quoting you, when you said this: [...]
Which was only just over a week ago.

Hello User13710. Here's the bit from DZ I was summarising when I mentioned various church denominations, and when I pointed out that he was implying a likeness between lorry-cycle interaction and the Notting Hill Carnival:

There's a gap between the employment prospects of young afro-Caribbean men and young white men. But (and this is a huge but) people still live, work, walk, shop, and worship cheek by jowl - at least in the inner zones. That's the bit the LCC simply does not or will not get. They would have us in our little lanes, separate...

We've heard this all before- over and over again: the theme that dedicated provision for bicycles is akin to the segregation of races. The claim is always silly, but it is never more ridiculous than when taken to DZ's extremes.

 

[mjr]

lots of people have the same views. they call themselves the LCC. and they claim to represent london cyclists. well sorry , but they don't represent ALL. a lot of the \lcc ideas are half baked

Where do they make that claim? I think LCC is usually pretty clear they're 12,000 members trying to be a voice for cyclists and those who want to cycle in London, like on http://lcc.org.uk/pages/who-we-are

 

[knocksofbeggarmen]

where?

where?

Here:

There's a gap between the employment prospects of young afro-Caribbean men and young white men. But (and this is a huge but) people still live, work, walk, shop, and worship cheek by jowl - at least in the inner zones. That's the bit the LCC simply does not or will not get. They would have us in our little lanes, separate

As for your suggestion I move to Utrecht if I like it there, I too can think of silly ways of saying flock off without actually saying it.

 

[knocksofbeggarmen]

Dear God.

I'm currently conversing with people who don't like it that lots of people are going to use the EW &NS London cycle routes when they open. The consultation has gone 'live' as they say in the jargon, and there are plans published here there and everywhere. Do you God, have any part in my getting challenged along these lines:

Show me a drawing.

you need to draw up the scale plans

If it isn't you, God, which of the Powers is it, do you think?

 

[subaqua]

Where do they make that claim? I think LCC is usually pretty clear they're 12,000 members trying to be a voice for cyclists and those who want to cycle in London, like on http://lcc.org.uk/pages/who-we-are

sort of answers your own question.that is a claim they represent london cyclists.

I got shouted at waaaay back on this thread by the Waltham forest LCC rep ( i think ) when I commented the Newham rep was a joke. especially when encouraging antisocial cycling on a feeder ride to an LCC organised demonstration.

that certainly is NOT the voice i want to be heard for me

 

[subaqua]

Dear God.

I'm currently conversing with people who don't like it that lots of people are going to use the EW &NS London cycle routes when they open. The consultation has gone 'live' as they say in the jargon, and there are plans published here there and everywhere. Do you God, have any part in my getting challenged along these lines:





If it isn't you, God, which of the Powers is it, do you think?

do you think it might be a better use of taxpayers money if they delay the one that will be ripped up within 12 months for the tideway tunnel construction

 

[mjr]

You are entitled to your opinion. You have missed the most compelling evidence though, that I am bothering to engage with a cyclist who has no interest in contributing anything to a cycling forum, other than this one issue.

For clarity though, no I do not need to go anywhere. If you wish to convince people though, you need to draw up the scale plans showing how you intend to carve up the space. Not the whole of London right now, that would be unreasonable. Perhaps just a one kilometer square. You choose

I must have missed the bit where knocksofbeggarmen admitted being an urban planner. London's streets are wide enough and because most of the city has been rebuilt repeatedly, there's surely space for cycling. It's a question of setting priorities and then letting the experts come up with the detailed plans, not producing our own detailed plans first, which will be out-of-date before they're ever built. There are loads of posts from people like favourite-of-this-parish David Hembrow documenting how changing priorities in the Netherlands changed the space distribution there over the years, like http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2011/10/transformation-of-city-centre-street.html or http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2010/09/transformation-in-centre-of-hoogeveen.html

Unlike our Dutch cousins, I suggest we're still in full-on motor-prioritisation in most of this country, even in urban centres, and that should change, whatever form it takes.