Doping in other sports

[oldroadman]

Probably not many independent experts - they all have got a hand in the fire - either for a world/national body or one or other side of the table at CAS - and it would seem that there there are as many different interpretations depending on which side of the fire yoto be recovered wu are sitting

Let WADA organise the testing and publish the results. Form an independent AADF (like CADF but for track and field). Ask Brian Cookson for advice. Then I'll believe Lord Coe is credible and serious. Next in the spotlight should be tennis, football, rugby, gymnastics, and believe it or not, golf (to be an Olympic "sport" in 2016). Almost all big money games where administrators with conflict of interests would rather not have the layers peeled away to see what is actually happening.

 

[psmiffy]

Form an independent AADF (like CADF but for track and field).

I believe it is one of the central planks of Coe's manifesto (although he seems to want to go further than that) - interestingly the CADF anti-doping expert is actually from the IAAF (and WADA)

 

[rich p]

plenty of independent experts who could add value,

...or add confusion, obfuscation and tittle tattle, á la Antoine Vayer and other armchair scientists.

 

[woohoo]

...or add confusion, obfuscation and tittle tattle, á la Antoine Vayer and other armchair scientists.

I was thinking of an approach along the lines suggested by oldroadman. I think there is a huge difference between "independent experts" and "armchair scientists"

The existence of the Clinic nutters shouldn't be used as an excuse for complacency (in general rather than in this particular case).

 

[rich p]

I was thinking of an approach along the lines suggested by oldroadman. I think there is a huge difference between "independent experts" and "armchair scientists"

I think that was the position that psmiffy and I were taking, not you. You suggested that the data should be released for all and sundry to pore over.

there are plenty of independent experts who could add value, given access to the data (of any athlete).

Like ORM, I'd rather WADA or other doping test bodies were given unfettered access to the data and BP.
I also don't believe there are 'plenty of independent experts' with a disinterested view, sitting around with enough time to assess all the data; so you end up with half-baked speculation from Vayer, Ross Tucker and Uncle Tom Cobley.

 

[woohoo]

I think that was the position that psmiffy and I were taking, not you. You suggested that the data should be released for all and sundry to pore over.

I admire your powers of ESP and mind reading, albeit that you are entirely wrong. How you can interpret "independent expert" as "all and sundry" is beyond me and looks like a wilful misinterpretation of what I said.

Like ORM, I'd rather WADA or other doping test bodies were given unfettered access to the data and BP.

So do I but they need access to the data before they can perform the analysis.

 

[rich p]

I admire your powers of ESP and mind reading, albeit that you are entirely wrong. How you can interpret "independent expert" as "all and sundry" is beyond me and looks like a wilful misinterpretation of what I said.


So do I but they need access to the data before they can perform the analysis.

Sorry if I've misinterpreted your position.

I thought you wanted open access to the data but maybe you want these 'independent experts' (whoever they are) to be given the info secretly?
Otherwise all and sundry will be able to pore over it surely?

I agree that for the data to be the preserve of WADA needs them to have the data! Clearly!
But that was my position as stated above.

 

[woohoo]

Sorry if I've misinterpreted your position.

I thought you wanted open access to the data

No far from it and maybe I should have made that clearer

but maybe you want these 'independent experts' (whoever they are) to be given the info secretly?

Well.... under well controlled and documented procedures including non-disclosure agreements (along the lines of an audit) and in any event the data has to be made available to other agencies in the case of an appeal.

 

[oldroadman]

This whole business of data release is messy. It should be released only to those agencies with a need to know. WADA and independent Anti-Doping Foundations (e.g. CADF). Then in the event of an appeal, and only then, would it go to the appeal body (e.g. CAS), the competitor and his/her lawyer, and all done with confidentiality agreements until such time as a verdict is reached. The armchair opinion merchants and "experts" who have their own non-neutral agenda should have no access, as their comments count for nothing, in my view. Mostly governing bodies need to be kept out, because of conflict of interest, and an enforceable standard code and table of sanctions laid down by an authority such as WADA.
Plus plenty of out of competition testing, because anyone who gets caught in competition is an idiot and needs a life ban anyway.
Grumpy rant over, it's raining and I don't like going out in the rain anymore, it was bad enough when I was getting paid to do it!

 

[Cathryn]

Hands up if you think Paula Radcliffe sounds convincing?

"People don't understand it, it's very complicated..."

Really? Really?

She broke my heart a little. I still believe she is clean (I HAVE TO believe she is clean) but if she is clean, why would she not release her data? Not necessary to the uneducated masses (i.e. publish online) but release it to independent experts such as the Sunday Times guys.

If Paula is not clean.... ugh!

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

If Paula is not clean.... ugh!

Was there not reports of her being "not that clean" during a race once?

 

[Cathryn]

Was there not reports of her being "not that clean" during a race once?

In that case, I'm not clean either

 

[albion]

Don't worry.Seb Coe likely has her on a promise so she is doing her bit.

I think Seb did a good job in the crisis, "playing ball" and not casting aspertions on sports where teams with incredible stamina in a team is a bit unreal.

 

[rich p]

She broke my heart a little. I still believe she is clean (I HAVE TO believe she is clean) but if she is clean, why would she not release her data? Not necessary to the uneducated masses (i.e. publish online) but release it to independent experts such as the Sunday Times guys.

If Paula is not clean.... ugh!

She's clean Cath!
Much like Wiggo, it would be perversely perverse for an athlete/cyclist to be as vocal about anti-doping as they both were during their careers. She stood on the side of the track at a World Champs (maybe Edmonton?) with a sign protesting against dopers during a distance race. A doper would surely have just kept their head down.
IMH etc etc

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

Why it’s so hard to catch cheaters
http://velonews.competitor.com/2015...-to-catch-cheaters_381972#6ZPlzGr0kOwYMUsZ.99