Doping in other sports

[aces_up1504]

While is half agree with your saying Oldroadman

"Sports have to WANT to be clean to monitor doping properly!

But if a sport is respected as clean then there is no requirment to monitor doping properly because there is belief the sport is clean, it only when issue arise on a consistant basis, then the clamp down is required.

The last few years in cycling it has been shown that doping is being beaten, it is the belief you can now win clean and as the cycle reiforces that doping is unacceptable, then i believe the problem will become less and less.

If not cyclist was found doping in the next 5 years, do you think they would countinue to the current regime or would the scale it back?

 

[Beebo]

Major league Baseball has a huge drug problem, testing is a joke.

The fans dont seem to care because it makes the game more exciting with more home runs being hit.

 

[tigger]

Sorry if this Telegraph article has been posted elsewhere (it can sit in a few different threads I think!) but Operation Puerto goes to court next week. Interesting that the scope of the investigation has been limited to cycling...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html

 

[davefb]

pfft soccer isn't clean..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_association_football#England

and of course in america , it was the balco scandal,, of which only one of the sportsmen was a cyclist..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BALCO

 

[aces_up1504]

pfft soccer isn't clean..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_association_football#England

I dont think anyone would say football is clean, but the amount of positive tests means that the sports is considered relatively low risk in terms of doping at the moment.

Dont forget in top flight football across the 4 big leagues you are talking in excess 1600 people probably across 50-60 Europe wide cities. Then we have south american based players. Were not just talking a couple of 100 cyclists.

 

[davefb]

I dont think anyone would say football is clean, but the amount of positive tests means that the sports is considered relatively low risk in terms of doping at the moment.

Dont forget in top flight football across the 4 big leagues you are talking in excess 1600 people probably across 50-60 Europe wide cities. Then we have south american based players. Were not just talking a couple of 100 cyclists.

so you know how many tests have been done and what the fail rate is , compared to cycling ?

this is old data.. but gives an idea

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/3170586.stm

AND, ( if it's still true) footballers can only be tested at training grounds or matches, not at homes,, which "may" be why mr ferdinand 'forgot' to take a test one time..

and yet, that ( utterly out of date ) article also mentions the FA claim that the UK does more tests than other countries!

 

[Andrew_P]

Joey Barton (of all people) wrote about Armstrong and said he had never had anything but urine tests. Never had blood or hair samples taken. They may rest two player post match from each team. http://www.joeybarton.com/armstrong-the-fall-of-an-iconic-sporting-superstar/

 

[BrumJim]

I think that there is a difference in focus between sports where skill and teamwork play a larger part in success than strength and/or fitness. To an average man on the street, you win cycle races by being stronger and fitter than the next guy. OK, descending and team tactics play a big part, but non-fans don't appreciate this much. Whereas in football, guys like Messi and Ronaldo are admired for their footwork, ball control and intelligent positioning. The only footballer I can remember that was worshipped for his pace was Des Walker.
Tennis again is about putting the ball in the right part of the court. It is evident now that to beat the best (Nadal, Murray, Djorkovic) you need to match them for fitness too, and hence I can believe that there is a big drugs problem in tennis too.
Rugby is another big issue. In both League and Union, strength and speed pay an important role in how good a player is regarded. The only side issue is that without playing as a team, and without having the right positioning and reading of the game, a super fast or super strong player is going to be a liability.

Sports where strength and/or speed make the biggest focus include cycling, athletics and weight lifting. All these have had serious drug problems which have affected their credibility. Some other sports (e.g. boxing) are going to have the same problems soon, whereas more team / skill orientated sports will probably get away with lax controls for a lot longer.

 

[Hont]

Dont forget in top flight football across the 4 big leagues you are talking in excess 1600 people probably across 50-60 Europe wide cities. Then we have south american based players. Were not just talking a couple of 100 cyclists.

Should that make a difference? Football is awash with money, it can certainly fund a bigger testing program, if the motivation was there.

The biggest problem is surely exactly that. The only reason that cycling started to clean up its act was because of doping scandals at its marquee event, the Tour de France, and the negative publicity. If the french police had not got involved, who's to say whether cycling would be any different now than from 1997.

 

[Andrew_P]

Take look at Football in the 70's and 80's the speed and sheer number of games has increased a huge amount. EPO was thought to be rife in the early 2000's let alone now. Got a £20 million pound player sidelined with an injury, surely the temptation would be some to give anabolics to help speed the recovery. Gary Nevile even wrote in his book about being given "vitamin injections" at a World Cup and he felt he could run for longer.

Big money returns = PED's

 

[Hont]

I happened to be out of the house during the San Marino grand prix in 1994, came back and put on the TV to find the race stopped with them trying to save the critically injured Ayrton Senna. Again I don't think I've watched a whole grand prix since.

I don't want to be too critical of this, because it was obviously very distressing, but given that Ratzenberger had died the previous day, you can hardly say that you didn't think the sport was dangerous. And there hasn't been a driver fatality in F1 since. During the same period I can think of at least 3 cycling fatalities during world tour level races.

 

[Hont]

Major league Baseball has a huge drug problem, testing is a joke.
The fans dont seem to care because it makes the game more exciting with more home runs being hit.

Not sure that's completely true. Remember all the fans holding up asterisk signs as Barry Bonds neared Hank Aarons record? And, although I agree that testing is a joke compared to many other sports, it has cleaned up somewhat. No one is getting that close to 50 HRs a season these days, let alone 73.

 

[davefb]

Take look at Football in the 70's and 80's the speed and sheer number of games has increased a huge amount. EPO was thought to be rife in the early 2000's let alone now. Got a £20 million pound player sidelined with an injury, surely the temptation would be some to give anabolics to help speed the recovery. Gary Nevile even wrote in his book about being given "vitamin injections" at a World Cup and he felt he could run for longer.

Big money returns = PED's

actually, the worst for footballers is giving painkillers to get players thru games, but not thinking of long term problems..

anyway found this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ll-to-feel-the-heat-and-share-the-burden.html

 

[Strathlubnaig]

As an example, Nathan Haas was tested 9 times last season, compare that to your typical fitba' player.

 

[Nebulous]

I don't want to be too critical of this, because it was obviously very distressing, but given that Ratzenberger had died the previous day, you can hardly say that you didn't think the sport was dangerous. And there hasn't been a driver fatality in F1 since. During the same period I can think of at least 3 cycling fatalities during world tour level races.

I'm not sure quoting that part of my post in isolation really works. The post was about how for a variety of reasons I lost interest in sports that had given me a lot of pleasure before. It's hard to define at this distance why that episode was such a turning point for my interest in Formula 1, but it is likely to have been a combination of several possibilities:-
1) I was a huge fan of his talent/ car-handling skills.
2) The TV coverage dwelt on the scene far too long, I remember it being focused on a puddle of blood on the ground.
3) Finding out afterwards it was nothing to do with him losing control, but was the result of a bodged welding job.

I wouldn't even say it was distressing, sickening might be a better adjective. I've worked in healthcare, including trying as part of a team to save people who had been in horrific accidents, and again dismay at the senselessness of it was more how I felt than distressed.

Whatever the reason I turned away from it that day and have never looked back.