Do clip in shoes really give that much of an advantage?

[GrasB]

Dr Auriel Forrester of Scientific Coaching: “Pulling up on the pedals decreases power output as it interferes with the all-important downstroke on the other side – specifically, you can’t pull up against gravity at the same rate or same force as you can push down with gravity!”

I'd suggest he actually starts to look at pedal load plots. I've got a lot of plots from not only me but a number of national & international pro cyclists which make this statement laughable.

 

[Norm]

I'd suggest he actually starts to look at pedal load plots. I've got a lot of plots from not only me but a number of national & international pro cyclists which make this statement laughable.

I know little to nothing on the details, but the quote did make me wonder whether Dr Auriel Forrester had ever climbed any stairs.

 

[colly]

Not just more efficient. Safer too.
With clips and straps, in the event of an accident, you might be dragged by your tied in feet to wherever your bike ends up. With clipless you do magically separate from the pedals. I know, and so do many others. My bike was a twisted mass under the car, I was on the other side of the car, sore but otherwise OK.
On bumpy roads too. No clips and straps and no clipless means your foot is always bobbling about on the face of the pedal. I have had my foot bounce right off when on a hire bike on holiday. Also in the wet your foot easily slips.

 

[RAYMOND]

Was he fitter than you or did he just look fitter, ie more muscular,defined.
Just because a guy looks big and muscular doesn't mean he as the cardio muscular fitness needed to cycle/run.
Also you could be fitter in one sport/discipline and not so in another.

 

[MacB]

I'm impressed by the level of 'anecdata' on this thread, it has surpassed other clipless threads in short order. The one coming closest to accuracy is GrasB but his level of cycling, and those he references, is so far beyond most of us, and always will be, that comparisons don't mean much. If that's the sort of cyclist you are, or have ambitions to become, then you need all the kit. As usual Norm gives some realworld data and admits that it's not possible to refine the exact contribution from the pedals.

But then we have the real gems - I was particularly taken by the explanation of clipless shoes having stiffer soles, then road shoes stiffer again but, but best of all, road specific pedals having a larger platform. Hmmm, for pedal efficiency you need a larger platform that is a rigid as possible...now what does that bring to mind???

I also love the idea that clipless aren't just more efficient but they are SAFER as well, that actually made me chuckle.

Most of us, definitely including me, have nothing like the physical attributes or mental dedication to maximise the potential of even the most basic equipment. This is pretty much true across all sports/hobbies and the lower down the food chain you are the less performance you are able to extract from kit.

Use whatever you want, spend whatever you want(I do), but give the marketing nonsense a rest as a means of self justification.

 

[screenman]

Have you actually tried any of the so called marketing nonsense products?

 

[MacB]

Have you actually tried any of the so called marketing nonsense products?

plenty and not just in cycling - I disliked clipless pedals(I've also had powergrips, regular clips and Holdfast) for a variety of reasons. but the main two were not enough return for the hassle and not being able to jump on my bike in whatever I had on my feet.

I can go fast enough and far enough, 'safely', as I am, if that situation changes then I may need to revisit pedals...keep an open mind and all that.

 

[pepecat]

I ride with toe clips and straps and MUCH prefer it to clipless. Tried going clipless for a while last year and didn't like it really. Don't the feeling of being 'attached' to the bike by the sole of my foot. It is very different from being 'attached' to the bike by having my toes in a clip. I've never had my feet slipping off the pedals in wet conditions, or had my feet bobbling about all over the pedals on a bumpy road.... that's just never happened.
If i need to put in a bit more effort to get up hills than those going clipless, then fine. I'll ultimately end up fitter than you lot, so ner!!

But seriously, i think it's whatever suits you and what you like. I've tried clipless, i don't think it's for me. I probably will try again at some point, but it got me so anxious the first few times that i didn't want to go out cycling for fear of falling off, which kinda defeats the whole point of enjoying cycling.

 

[pepecat]

Question though, is it possible to try out various clips and stuff at bike shops? I have look keo cleats / pedals and don't much like them, but i might be better suited to shimano spds, or those eggbeater ones from crank brothers. I don't really want to spend money on various sets of cleats and pedals though. Maybe we could have a 'cleat and pedal library' here, like the saddle one.

 

[normskirus]

Hi

Went clipless October 2011 and had first clipless moment within 5 minutes of leaving the house - much to the amusement of mother and daughter in the car behind me.
So what has clipless done for me. I like the positive feel of being clipped in and not having think of keeping my foot square on the pedal. Spinning the pedals seems easier and I would say my cadence has improved. Has it made my 20 mile round trip commute faster? - no. It still takes me 40 to 45 minutes each way with an average speed of about 22km/hr. Im also a bit wary of the pull up idea. Im not a doctor but it seems to me that our leg joints (ankles/knees) are designed have evolved to handle compression rather than be under tension.
So to answer the original posters question - clipless may have made a small difference but being more bike fit makes the most in my opinion. Do more miles, more often with hills will make you faster - simple.

Normskirus

 

[Norm]

The one coming closest to accuracy is GrasB but his level of cycling, and those he references, is so far beyond most of us, and always will be, that comparisons don't mean much. If that's the sort of cyclist you are, or have ambitions to become, then you need all the kit. As usual Norm gives some realworld data and admits that it's not possible to refine the exact contribution from the pedals.

GrasB is more accurate than me? I'm disappointed.

Mac has tried them all, and didn't like them, so I don't think the luddite comments are really applicable.

People are quick to laugh off the clipless moments, maybe I should introduce them to a friend of mine who was hospitalised for months after shattering his **either tibia or fibula, it's not really relevant and it could have been both** falling off and catching his shin on the edge of a pavement.

I like the SPD's on my road bike as I'm happy wearing cycling shoes when all I'm doing is going out for a ride. However, I'm even happier that my MTB and hacks have flats so I can just jump on and ride them.

How does that mark out my mental dedication?

 

[MacB]

Above all if you find it too technical you could always play golf instead - using hickory shaft clubs and feather balls of course, as the modern stuff is all marketing nonsense and that most golfers don't have the physical attributes or mental dedication to maximise the potential of even the most basic equipment.

Some of that is true, give me a cheap, but functional, set of clubs and I'll beat most of you on a golf course regardless of how much you spend on kit and fitting. Why? because I put in the practice...or at least I would have done prior to the elbow surgeries, I'd probably struggle to get better than about 12 over now....but that's still good enough to beat most golfers in the world. Was I ever any where near pro level? - not even remotely, most people could have reached my level by putting in the practice, but most people will never get within sniffing distance of pro standards, even if they put in the practice.

A bit of golfing marketing nonsense - since I first played 40 years ago every 'technological' step forward has been 'guaranteed' to add distance and accuracy over previous improvements. If you added them all together then your modern golfer should be driving the ball 3000+ yards with pinpoint precision. Average handicaps would have improved beyond recognition, they haven't.

Interestingly, or not, a pro, or just decent low handicap amateur, could use old hickory shafted clubs and beat you, as long as they could use a modern golf ball. My Dad used to make his own clubs from components and he played off 1. My brother used to need all the latest and greatest kit, decades in advance of the kit my Dad used, and his best handicap was 3. But they both snapped up the latest advances in golf ball technology.

 

[GrasB]

I'm impressed by the level of 'anecdata' on this thread, it has surpassed other clipless threads in short order. The one coming closest to accuracy is GrasB but his level of cycling, and those he references, is so far beyond most of us, and always will be, that comparisons don't mean much. If that's the sort of cyclist you are, or have ambitions to become, then you need all the kit. As usual Norm gives some realworld data and admits that it's not possible to refine the exact contribution from the pedals.

The thing is would the likes of norm likely go out & get per-pedal plots of their power production?

But then we have the real gems - I was particularly taken by the explanation of clipless shoes having stiffer soles, then road shoes stiffer again but, but best of all, road specific pedals having a larger platform. Hmmm, for pedal efficiency you need a larger platform that is a rigid as possible...now what does that bring to mind???

Flat pedals, but hey you've missed something. With flat pedals if you're actually pedaling efficiently enough for the large platform to be of use you'll find you feet are being kicked off the pedals by road vibration etc.

I also love the idea that clipless aren't just more efficient but they are SAFER as well, that actually made me chuckle.

Safer than toe-clips. IME clipless are easier to get out of quickly when you're hassled & tend to let your feet go when you hit the ground.

 

[MacB]

The this is would the likes of norm likely go out & get per-pedal plots of their power production?


Flat pedals, but hey you've missed something. With flat pedals if you're actually pedaling efficiently enough for the large platform to be of use you'll find you feet are being kicked off the pedals by road vibration etc.

Safer than toe-clips. IME clipless are easier to get out of quickly when you're hassled & tend to let your feet go when you hit the ground.

I never claimed to be pedalling efficiently or to have desires to improve my efficiency in this area - as I said I will revisit those thoughts if I get those desires. What I did say was that my feet didn't fly off the pedals and that I was satisfied with the speeds and distances I was able to achieve. I cycle for utility, exercise or socially and my current needs are being met by flat pedals.

So if clipless are safer than clips are flats safer than both of them?

 

[GrasB]

So if clipless are safer than clips are flats safer than both of them?

Different risk set so hard to say. I still have marks on my legs from trying to ride with flat pedals on my MTB but then again I'm a fairly hard core road rider. I'm aware of people who have fallen off their bikes when they've become unfooted riding with flat pedals on bumps etc & one person sustained serious injuries. Though it wouldn't surprise me to find these people riding with totally inappropriate shoes like my leather sole boating shoes (they have almost 0 grip on any wet metal or plastic, including soft rubber).