Detention Lines: I will wear a helmet.

[Maz]

A point of order is that we are actually discussing cycle helmets here, not motorcycle ones. Motorcycle helmets are certainly designed to much more rigorous standards than cycle helmets.

That's because motorcycles travel a lot faster and therefore motorcycle helmets are built to a more rigourous standard than cycling helmets, but both serve to reduce injuries. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[ufkacbln]

From the same report, a small quote is
"Cyclists in Britain run a higher risk per hour than the other
modes (see Chart 2)."

Also, the report is mostly comparing cycling with other forms of vehicular travel. not pedestrians.

Another problem with the source you cited is that it only compares fatalities. not inicidents.

Which I pointed out but it is still valid - pedestrian are at greater risk in this case - if the lesser group "requires" protection - why does the greater group not?

But the good news i that you read the paper;

Now try:

Wardlaw - Three lessons for a better Cycling future" in the BMJ.....

Let us examine the
facts. The inherent risks of road cycling are trivial.3 Of
at least 3.5 million regular cyclists in Britain, only about
10 a year are killed in rider only accidents. This
compares with about 350 people younger than 75
killed each year falling down steps or tripping.Six
times as many pedestrians as cyclists are killed by
motor traffic, yet travel surveys show annual mileage
walked is only five times that cycled; a mile of walking
must be more “dangerous” than a mile of cycling. In
both cases, of course, the activity itself is harmless—but
it's in the way.

 

[Maz]

A cranium free-fall of 24 inches onto a solid surface has the potential to inflict permanent brain damage. A fall of 36" has the potential to cause death.

What effect if any would a cycle helmet have in a 45 mph collision?

I doubt it would be of any use whatsoever. The point is that at much lower speeds the helmet can help reduce injuries.

 

[BentMikey]

I doubt it would be of any use whatsoever. The point is that at much lower speeds the helmet can help reduce injuries.

So it's claimed, but the evidence isn't conclusive. The most I would go is that cycle helmets will prevent some cuts and scrapes, but not more serious injuries.

 

[Brock]

I want someone to do a study of people falling with and without a helmet, I'd wager that amongst the group wearing helmets considerably more will suffer an impact to the cranium due purely to the increased cross sectional area of the 'head' and almost certainly more neck injuries as a result.
I probably won't get it though :/

 

[Maz]

So it's claimed, but the evidence isn't conclusive.

Hm. Try headbutting a wall with equal force with and without a helmet. Let us know which one hurts more. I think it's fairly conclusive.

 

[hackbike 6]

Thats crap anyway.Most of us climb steps so thats irrelevant.

 

[Brock]

Hm. Try headbutting a wall with equal force with and without a helmet. Let us know which one hurts more. It think it's fairly conclusive.

Stand with your shoulder against the wall and headbut it sideways (which is often the way we fall) with and without a helmet.
What do you find?

 

[Crackle]

So it's claimed, but the evidence isn't conclusive. The most I would go is that cycle helmets will prevent some cuts and scrapes, but not more serious injuries.

Evidence and studies are just not going to be conclusive though if they are based on cycling accidents that turn up in casualty. These kind of accidents are likely to be more serious and involve more than just the cyclist.

Instead you have to give more weight to anecdotal evidence and to the design of cycle helmets, in particular the forces involved and the kind of impact expected.

Falling from a bike where your centre of gravity is higher is likey to send your trunk down first with a greater risk of head impact. If the impact happens suddenly you are less likely to get a hand down than saying falling over in the street.

It's the same with mountaineering. Stonefall and the prolifertation of rocky outcrops mean head injury is more likely and more serious.

You just can't compare walking down the street or drinking to either, it's spurious and part of a different risk category.

It makes eminent sense that a helmet will provide protection beyond cuts and bruises, how far beyond is up for debate but I reckon you'd debate it less if you'd ever suffered a serious head injury. Instead you'd probably take the view that a helmet is not so inconvenient for the potential it might have to stop an injury.

Also, people might want to be aware of how a well fitted helmet designed to Ansi rather than British standards is going to be a better buy than some ill-fitted British standard designed helmet.

 

[Crackle]

I want someone to do a study of people falling with and without a helmet, I'd wager that amongst the group wearing helmets considerably more will suffer an impact to the cranium due purely to the increased cross sectional area of the 'head' and almost certainly more neck injuries as a result.
I probably won't get it though :/

For me this is the crux. Current standards don't tell you enough. I want to know exactly the same thing. Why can't someone do some NCAP style crash dummy tests?

 

[Maz]

Stand with your shoulder against the wall and headbut it sideways (which is often the way we fall) with and without a helmet.
What do you find?

It hurts more without the helmet. What did you find?

 

[Crackle]

It hurts more without the helmet. What did you find?

but seriously I just went and gently tried this as I never had before. I pushed the helmet against the door where I actually fractued my skull when I came off my bike some 17 years ago. The helmet hit first and may well have protected me, though I probably hit the floor at about 20mph so...........

But my neck twisted uncomfortably and I would probably have strained some muscles at the very least. Maybe I would have fractured my skull and twisted my neck. Maybe I'd just have twisted my neck.......

 

[BentMikey]

LOL, yes, trot out that old hack about headbutting walls. Fail.

 

[Brock]

It hurts more without the helmet. What did you find?

I find without a helmet my head misses the wall entirely due to my shoulder width. Perhaps you have a particularly long neck

 

[Crackle]

I find without a helmet my head misses the wall entirely due to my shoulder width. Perhaps you have a particularly long neck

Well in my accident I hit the side of my head but my shoulder did not hit the floor because I rotated as I came down so your analogy doesn't hold true.