Cyclists-who-fail-to-use-dedicated-lanes-could-be-fined ....

[mjr]

The problem isn't the straight bit, but the junctions and roundabout - which virtually any cyclelane, presumably this one too, makes into an extremely hazardous undertaking.

Junctions and roundabouts are hazardous if you're cycling on the carriageway too, plus on the bits between junctions, you've two of the top five collision types (sideswipes and dooring) which just shouldn't be possible on cycleways.

So the junctions need care? So what? It should be possible to design them decently most of the time. I really don't understand why they're screwed up in England in most cases. This should be easy compared to catering for motorists.

However, there are far more segregationists in the minds of vehicular cyclists than in reality: I want cycleways to bypass the busiest "barrier" roads but wish to keep access to the carriageway, just like motorists aren't confined to motorways.

 

[slowmotion]

I've ridden in Amsterdam a few times. I can honestly say that I was far more scared of an accident on the cycle lanes there than I am mixing it with Central London traffic. It had nothing to do with motorised traffic either. They're utter nutters, in the nicest possible way.
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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I86G5jDDeaw
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[glenn forger]

He could simply have said "No" in that case.

TfL most certainly do have the right to make such impositions - Traffic Regulations Orders (TROs) - are routinely used to prohibit certain vehicles from certain parts of the carriageway (to create bus lanes or cycle lanes for example)
It is also the case that Boris has been pressing for this for a while:
http://www.cyclelicio.us/2015/boris-wants-bikes-off-the-road-tfl-says-not-yet/
"TfL says they have received similar request from the Mayor’s office in the past,"

Interesting, ta.

My problem is that Boris is such a glistening meatpole I automatically assume he's talking flannel.

 

[swansonj]

A24 - Dorking to Leatherhead cycle path

Built as a model example, but CTC stood firmly against such things- on principle!

A model example. And the surface is in good condition and reasonably clear from debris, and except for the fifty yards past the ramp down to the underpass at West Humble, it's nice and wide too. It's I guess, three miles long. In that three miles:

• It does not have priority over side roads. There are about five turnings where in principle you might have to give way; in practice, good sight lines and low traffic means there's only one where your flow is significantly interrupted.
• If you want to turn off at Burford Bridge to climb Box Hill, it's a bit of a nightmare. They do their best to force you into the horrible underpass (complete with anticycling barriers); if you resist that, you are trying to join then cross a flow of traffic on the dual carriageway from a standing start - significantly harder than being part of that flow to start with.
• At the North end, it's cut off from the more recent continuation cycle path into Leatherhead by a dual carriageway roundabout. Headed north, you can filter into the traffic on the roundabout, but headed south, if you try and do it from the roundabout, there's a ridiculous acute turn, so you almost have to cross Young Street in two manoeuvres at the pedestrian island
• At the South end, it joins onto a typical bodged-from-the-pavement inadequate path into Dorking.

My point? Even a purpose-built, model facility, which has several good points, is not exactly an unmixed blessing.

 

[coffeejo]

Cycle lanes would be fantastic if, as others have said, they were kept clean and free from hazards AND had priority over the roads. Otherwise I'll stick to the main carriageway, even when given the option, as I'd rather be riding with the traffic at a junction than fighting it.

 

[snorri]

d, they were kept clean and free from hazards AND had priority over the roads. Otherwise I'll stick to the main carriageway, even when given the option, as I'd rather be riding with the traffic at a junction than fighting it.

I really don't "get" this argument, as a car driver I have to give way to other drivers and cyclists at junctions on every single journey I undertake in my locality. There is never a direct route for me to take between my home and where i want to go. It seems unrealistic to expect to have priority at every junction and also a direct route when I'm on my bike.

 

[coffeejo]

If you cycle on a road you have a reasonable right to expect drivers not to turn across you or left hook you. If you cycle on a path by that road you are offer, indeed usually, expected to give way to turning vehicles from the main carriageway.

This.

 

[snorri]

If you cycle on a road you have a reasonable right to expect drivers not to turn across you or left hook you. If you cycle on a path by that road you are offer, indeed usually, expected to give way to turning vehicles from the main carriageway.

Agreed, but this is not a failing of segregation, it is a failing of a particular aspect of segregation design. We can't blame segregation as such for this problem, but we can blame UK transport engineers who design in these failings, or their masters.

 

[Dan B]

I'd like to see a design for a segregated path that stops drivers from blocking it when waiting to join the main road from a side road

 

[coffeejo]

Agreed, but this is not a failing of segregation, it is a failing of a particular aspect of segregation design. We can't blame segregation as such for this problem, but we can blame UK transport engineers who design in these failings, or their masters.

Given the state of many things in the country, I'm not going to hold my breath. So my position is simple: I'll carry on as usual, choosing my routes according to the convenience, surface, conditions, scenery etc and whether it takes me where I want to go. Don't care if it's an A road, minor road or cycle path.

 

[swansonj]

I really don't "get" this argument, as a car driver I have to give way to other drivers and cyclists at junctions on every single journey I undertake in my locality. There is never a direct route for me to take between my home and where i want to go. It seems unrealistic to expect to have priority at every junction and also a direct route when I'm on my bike.

Our council just spend a rumoured half million converting a pavement to shared use.

If I take the carriageway, from leaving Leatherhead town centre to arriving in Ashtead town centre, I have to give way twice.

If I take the new cycle path, I have to give way, I think, fifteen times.

 

[mjr]

I'd like to see a design for a segregated path that stops drivers from blocking it when waiting to join the main road from a side road

There are two good options: aim the cycleway to cross perpendicularly about three to four metres back from the side road's end and mark it with studs or paint dots so the first car stops ahead of it and the second probably won't block it;or aim the crossing at the driver's door and approaching people will block their view out and most will reverse.

Of course, most designers in England seem to aim the crossings at the car bonnet Again, I don't think this is difficult. Designers seem a bit thoughtless or ignorant and the safety auditors that should be challenging them on this are worse.

You can't completely stop drivers blocking it but you can't stop drivers T- boning or right-crossing people cycling on the carriageway either.

 

[snorri]

Well, seeing as segregation is just a means to keep cyclists out of the way of real traffic, I draw the conclusion that such failings are inherent.

Segregation can be a means of providing a cheaper and efficient transport network providing benefits to the user and the national economy.

 

[mjr]

Our council just spend a rumoured half million converting a pavement to shared use.

If I take the carriageway, from leaving Leatherhead town centre to arriving in Ashtead town centre, I have to give way twice.

If I take the new cycle path, I have to give way, I think, fifteen times.

Please please please write to the local media and www.writetothem.com with that example, asking why they hate people on bikes and love wasting money!

 

[Dan B]

First option sounds plausible, not so sure about the second if it relies on drivers being willing to use their reverse gear. They don't do that even in box junctions ...