Cyclist escapes prosecution after fatal collision with pensioner

[SpokeyDokey]

Mod note:

The power output 'debate' is dragging the thread well off-course.

Please let it go.

Thanks.

 

[mjr]

I think most people would be astonished to learn that speed limits do not apply to us - particularly as it is a quirk of legislation, not a conscious decision.

I'm sure I remember reading that it was a conscious decision, back when speed limits were first introduced in the Locomotives Acts, because it was motorists who were damaging the roads by attempting to corner at too high speeds, not cyclists, horse riders or carriage drivers. It was nothing to do with being able to determine one's speed, although that may have been put forward in later debates as a reason not to extended the limits to all.

 

[mjr]

Strava have built their business on this and have legally engineered things so that they are not responsible for safety or legality. They don't "allow" (or disallow) segments, they just enable them. Safety and legality is all down to the riders who set things up.

I expect Strava have also factored in the cost of lawyers and some provisions or insurance or plan for if they're ever successfully sued somewhere.

But let's face it, they're not going to get closed down in the UK any time soon, in part because too many councils and other bits of government are buying their data now.

 

[classic33]

I'm sure I remember reading that it was a conscious decision, back when speed limits were first introduced in the Locomotives Acts, because it was motorists who were damaging the roads by attempting to corner at too high speeds, not cyclists, horse riders or carriage drivers. It was nothing to do with being able to determine one's speed, although that may have been put forward in later debates as a reason not to extended the limits to all.

All 14-15 of them!

The Locomotives Act applied to traction engines, and steam engines on the roads in England.

Fail to see what this has to do with the incident in question though. As the class of vehicle was heavier than any other on the roads at the time, at around twenty tons. Fowler of Leeds was a well known local builder of such engines, before moving onto steam locomotives(railway).

 

[Dogtrousers]

I expect Strava have also factored in the cost of lawyers and some provisions or insurance or plan for if they're ever successfully sued somewhere.

But let's face it, they're not going to get closed down in the UK any time soon, in part because too many councils and other bits of government are buying their data now.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that Strava should be closed down. The Royal Parks are requesting the removal of segments on public roads in a specific location, which is a tad less drastic. But still unlikely to succeed.

 

[Dogtrousers]

All 14-15 of them!

The Locomotives Act applied to traction engines, and steam engines on the roads in England.

Fail to see what this has to do with the incident in question though. As the class of vehicle was heavier than any other on the roads at the time, at around twenty tons. Fowler of Leeds was a well known local builder of such engines, before moving onto steam locomotives(railway).

The relevance is that the law treats different classes of vehicle differently, and subjects them to different restrictions.

Why are cycles not subject to speed limits? It's definitely not due to the old tale that bikes don't have speedometers, as suggested by a police officer in relation to this case. It's because the lawmakers chose to apply this restriction to motorised vehicles only. (And different limits apply to different classes of motorised vehicle).

Exactly why did the lawmakers make this particular choice? We don't know. But it certainly had nothing to do with speedometers.

 

[mjr]

Exactly why did the lawmakers make this particular choice? We don't know. But it certainly had nothing to do with speedometers.

Hansard goes back to 1803 so you can read what was said while they were debating the Locomotives Bills.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I don't think anyone's suggesting that Strava should be closed down. The Royal Parks are requesting the removal of segments on public roads in a specific location, which is a tad less drastic. But still unlikely to succeed.

There’s no suggestion Strava segments had a contributing factor in the collision is there?

 

[Dogtrousers]

There’s no suggestion Strava segments had a contributing factor in the collision is there?

The Royal Parks have requested that the Outer Circle segment be removed. https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/c...-collision-with-pensioner.297313/post-7197208

You could interpret that as a suggestion that Strava segments had a contributing factor but it's not explicitly stated.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

You could interpret that as a suggestion that Strava segments had a contributing factor but it's not explicitly stated.

Well surely it would be stated in the court case if it did?

 

[Dogtrousers]

Well surely it would be stated in the court case if it did?

The Royal Parks have most definitely written to Strava requesting the removal of the Outer Circle segment. You're free to draw whatever conclusion you like from that.

https://www.royalparks.org.uk/get-i...s-releases/regents-park-statement-royal-parks

 

[Ming the Merciless]

The Royal Parks have most definitely written to Strava requesting the removal of the Outer Circle segment. You're free to draw whatever conclusion you like from that.

https://www.royalparks.org.uk/get-i...s-releases/regents-park-statement-royal-parks

Just feels that’s not going to make a difference to these group rides.

 

[berty bassett]

What does this phrase "where they can expect to come into conflict with pedestrians" even mean? One stretch of cycleway into my local town centre is 9m wide and dead straight with only narrow lampposts in the middle to obstruct visibility. There's maybe a metre of verge to trees either side. It's packed with people walking and cycling at peak times, so is it where I can expect to come into conflict with pedestrians? Yet off-peak, you could do 40 along there and the biggest danger would normally be the cobbled hump junction in the middle rattling the nuts off your bike. I expect there's some astonishing speeds on Strava for it, set very early morning, but I'm not a user of it.

I'm sure that people have long used that and another straight open flat section past the paper mill for seeing how fast they can cycle. The main problem is that Strava now encourages stupid people to publish their speeds.

personally I would think that riding on a shared cycleway at 40 at any time is idiotic and irresponsible and part of the reason why the general public seem to be against cyclists in general - if we as a whole want to be accepted on roads , cycle paths etc then we should show a modicum of common sense , if you want to travel at high speed then use a road !just my opinion
I have just come back from majorca and the arrogance shown by some cyclists was unbelievable , one shouting and moaning at others coming up the mountain because he was coming down and wanted to use the wrong side of the road to corner rather than slow down , regardless of other road users . I can only put it down to Audi and bmw drivers have now taken to the roads on bikes
and that wasn't a pop at majorca as I think its the best place ive ever been for cycling and the car/coach drivers must have the patience of saints

 

[Dogtrousers]

Just feels that’s not going to make a difference to these group rides.

Probably not. I don't know. Maybe they are all mad keen about their Strava times, maybe not.

 

[PK99]

52mph in a 20mph zone: How cyclists are turning UK roads into death traps
Competitive users of apps such as Strava are racing for their personal bests – and putting other road users at serious risk of injury
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...rava-cyclists-turn-uk-roads-into-death-traps/

STRAVA

Tite St to Chelsea Bridge​

Ride Segment London, England, United Kingdom

• Distance0.63km
• Elevation Gain5m
• Avg Grade-0.3%
• Lowest Elev4m
• Highest Elev9m
• Elev Difference5m

Rank	Name	Speed	Power	Time
1	Noa F	73.2 km/h	-	31s
2	Shaiful A. I. M.	70.9 km/h	101 W	32s
3	Emdad R	68.7 km/h	191 W	33s
4	Iñaki Leunda	66.7 km/h	-	34s
4	Danilo K	66.7 km/h	-	34s
6	Rutger Wouters	64.8 km/h	-	35s
7	Majo Mesko	63.0 km/h	203 W Power Meter	36s
7	Frank Schuff	63.0 km/h	160 W Power Meter	36s
7	Thierry Lecat	63.0 km/h	223 W Power Meter	36s
7	Carlos Garza Snydelaar	63.0 km/h	152 W Power Meter	36s
7	Nik Vidovič🇸🇮	63.0 km/h	139 W Power Meter	36s
7	Jesse Wierenga	63.0 km/h	93 W	36s
7	АНДРЕЙ Z	63.0 km/h	-	36s
7	Giulio Ravoni	63.0 km/h	-	36s