Julia9054
Guru
- Location
- Knaresborough
Cycling laws to be overhauled.
- Thread starter Slick
- Start date
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Fab Foodie
hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
- Location
- Kirton, Devon.
Shame on you TC....coming on here, stating the bleedin’ obvious....
Salty seadog
Space Cadet...(3rd Class...)
[QUOTE 5346728, member: 9609"]more police per head of population than ever before, they're just bogged down in too much complexity. too busy counting crime than trying to stop it
1960 - population 51 million, 71,000 police officers
2017 - population 63 million, 123,000 police officers
thats a 40% increase per capita in police numbers
and sadly for us road crime, even though it is a bigger taker of life and cause of serious injuries than any other crime, has becoming of low priority to them, their focus is now elsewhere.[/QUOTE]
What were the numbers for say, 2009, 2015? Just curious.
1960 - population 51 million, 71,000 police officers
2017 - population 63 million, 123,000 police officers
thats a 40% increase per capita in police numbers
and sadly for us road crime, even though it is a bigger taker of life and cause of serious injuries than any other crime, has becoming of low priority to them, their focus is now elsewhere.[/QUOTE]
What were the numbers for say, 2009, 2015? Just curious.
Profpointy
Legendary Member
[QUOTE 5346855, member: 9609"]this happens in Germany too, laws revolve around 'transport' rather than the 'motor vehicle'. And as such points can be added to your licience for things like jumping a red light on a push bike. (not sure how that applies to youngsters or those that don't drive). I think there is also a higher threshold for for how much you can drink whilst cycling, but you can loose your driving licience for riding a bike drunk in germany.
I think it is a good idea.[/QUOTE]
I think it's a ludicrous idea and just pandering to the petrol head false equivalence. A poorly ridden bike seriously harming another person is an extremely rare thing, to the extent that it makes the national news and web discussions for months. 2000 od are killed by motor vehicles in the uk each year - yet you are suggesting the punishments for bad cycling ahould be made much much more severe. It is just nuts to suggest drunken cycling ahould be punished the same as drunken driving as some kind of equivalence argument
I think it is a good idea.[/QUOTE]
I think it's a ludicrous idea and just pandering to the petrol head false equivalence. A poorly ridden bike seriously harming another person is an extremely rare thing, to the extent that it makes the national news and web discussions for months. 2000 od are killed by motor vehicles in the uk each year - yet you are suggesting the punishments for bad cycling ahould be made much much more severe. It is just nuts to suggest drunken cycling ahould be punished the same as drunken driving as some kind of equivalence argument
Next time I see the chap, or .1% of him, I’ll ask for more details. I don’t think it’s an actual licence, more a category on a driving licence. I’m sure he said that Estonia was the same.
OneArmedBandit
Active Member
NorthernDave
Never used Über Member
- Location
- The real Northern Powerhouse
I've just been listening to the news on the wireless and they've quoted the "Minister for Cycling"
as saying that there is overwhelming demand for cyclists to be treated the same as other road users when someone is killed or seriously injured.
So, that'll be a slap on the wrist and a £50 fine then?
Or, for a more balanced view, try this:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...to-behave-is-more-headline-grabbing-hypocrisy
as saying that there is overwhelming demand for cyclists to be treated the same as other road users when someone is killed or seriously injured.So, that'll be a slap on the wrist and a £50 fine then?
Or, for a more balanced view, try this:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...to-behave-is-more-headline-grabbing-hypocrisy
Brandane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Costa Clyde
[QUOTE 5346728, member: 9609"]more police per head of population than ever before, they're just bogged down in too much complexity. too busy counting crime than trying to stop it
1960 - population 51 million, 71,000 police officers
2017 - population 63 million, 123,000 police officers
thats a 40% increase per capita in police numbers
and sadly for us road crime, even though it is a bigger taker of life and cause of serious injuries than any other crime, has becoming of low priority to them, their focus is now elsewhere.[/QUOTE]
I've no idea where those statistics are from, but I would be interested to know if they include Special Constables (aka "hobby bobbies") in the numbers? Both for 1960 and 2017. They are very keen to recruit Special Constables to bolster the numbers at low cost, but these "officers" are only required to come out for a very few hours per month, and are only any use as corroboration (and sometimes not much use for that) for regular officers. There are also now a not insignificant number of part time Police Officers which is a relatively new concept. Are they being counted amongst those numbers?
It should also be noted that overtime cuts can have a serious effect on Police numbers. "Back in the day", we used to have a double shift on for the peak hours on Friday and Saturday nights from 10pm to 3am, as the back shift stayed on late and night shift came out early (there was no choice given, you just did it without questions!). That was done away with at the stroke of a pen sometime during the early 90's, thus halving the number of officers available to tackle increasing disorder.
Never believe statistics.
1960 - population 51 million, 71,000 police officers
2017 - population 63 million, 123,000 police officers
thats a 40% increase per capita in police numbers
and sadly for us road crime, even though it is a bigger taker of life and cause of serious injuries than any other crime, has becoming of low priority to them, their focus is now elsewhere.[/QUOTE]
I've no idea where those statistics are from, but I would be interested to know if they include Special Constables (aka "hobby bobbies") in the numbers? Both for 1960 and 2017. They are very keen to recruit Special Constables to bolster the numbers at low cost, but these "officers" are only required to come out for a very few hours per month, and are only any use as corroboration (and sometimes not much use for that) for regular officers. There are also now a not insignificant number of part time Police Officers which is a relatively new concept. Are they being counted amongst those numbers?
It should also be noted that overtime cuts can have a serious effect on Police numbers. "Back in the day", we used to have a double shift on for the peak hours on Friday and Saturday nights from 10pm to 3am, as the back shift stayed on late and night shift came out early (there was no choice given, you just did it without questions!). That was done away with at the stroke of a pen sometime during the early 90's, thus halving the number of officers available to tackle increasing disorder.
Never believe statistics.
Salty seadog
Space Cadet...(3rd Class...)
Yep , you can prove anything with statistics..... Any way.
Shouldn't you be starting a satirical thread about cars ..?
Brandane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Costa Clyde
[QUOTE 5346495, member: 9609"]the line that stuck out for me was
"By contrast, Cycling UK said that 99.4% of deaths on the road in the last ten years involved a motor vehicle".
as such it would seem to me that 99.4% of the focus needs to be on motorized vehicles.[/QUOTE]
99.4% of the focus probably IS on motorised vehicles. This is us getting our 0.6%. I wouldn't get overly concerned about it.
"By contrast, Cycling UK said that 99.4% of deaths on the road in the last ten years involved a motor vehicle".
as such it would seem to me that 99.4% of the focus needs to be on motorized vehicles.[/QUOTE]
99.4% of the focus probably IS on motorised vehicles. This is us getting our 0.6%. I wouldn't get overly concerned about it.
classic33
Leg End Member
Would it mean that we'd no longer be treated as second class, and that we can expect to be treated seriously if we're hit by a motor vehicle?I've just been listening to the news on the wireless and they've quoted the "Minister for Cycling"
So, that'll be a slap on the wrist and a £50 fine then?
Or, for a more balanced view, try this:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...to-behave-is-more-headline-grabbing-hypocrisy
Having been involved in two collisions in the last fortnight (in the same location!) the proposal does concern me.
On the first occasion I was filtering up the outside when a pedestrian stepped out from behind a vehicle without looking. I always stay wide enough to avoid car-dooring, so she stepped pretty far and fast. I had no time to brake, and collided with her. I got a grazed knee, a bruised thigh, and a busted lip. I guess she was pretty shaken up too, but she was able to walk away. If there was a presumption against cyclists I would have found myself being investigated for dangerous cycling, when it seemed clear to me that the fault was entirely the pedestrian's. She said she didn't expect a bike moving up outside the motors as they usually moved up the inside.
The second incident involved a car doing a u-turn from the parking lane. He was looking left as he turned, and although I stopped, he kept coming towards me as he looked left, until I was shouting through his window. He then accused me of cycling too fast! On both occasions I was moving at about 16mph.
What concerns me about this proposed new law is that it tends, unnecessarily, to shift the presumption of fault onto cyclists, and doesn't address the woeful lack of bike awareness amongst other road users!
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
Figures can't lie but liars can figure... always check statistics are really saying what the reporter claims they are.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
Puritanical shoots. "The best advice I can give is not to drink alcohol if you intend to cycle. If you do drink then there is a good chance you will be committing a criminal offence." Not true, as clarified in the bit @srw quoted! Slater and Gordon should have been fired by Cycling UK for their misleading cyclist-hating articles long ago.
How different it is abroad. In most of central and southeastern Europe, there's a fruity beer drink called a "Radler", the German for "Cyclist". 2% ABV. A little drink is reasonable and expected. I heartily recommend Karlovačko Natur Radler from Croatia.
