COVID Vaccine !

[marinyork]

Surely individual EU countries don't have to wait for a nod from above?

My understanding is some EU countries can go ahead before under emergency powers.

EMA meeting today. They want a coordinated effort though.

A well run vaccine program matters far, far, more than when you start. Psychologically, politically, it's the early stuff that matters.

What'll probably happen is that comparing 28 different countries' vaccination programs in January there will be Daily Mail articles eventually asking why does Slovakia seem to be vaccinating at 2.7 times the rate per head of the population as Luxembourg, why is Germany vaccinating at 1.4x the rate we are and now overtaken us etc. These are madeup examples but will likely happen to some unluckier residents of some very rich western country, just hopefully it's not the UK.

 

[marinyork]

Haha @Blue Hills , as we type the French have stuck up two fingers at the EU and announced they'll start vaccinating on Sunday.

 

[Blue Hills]

Haha @Blue Hills , as we type the French have stuck up two fingers at the EU and announced they'll start vaccinating on Sunday.

thanks for the info, though would have assumed that this was an area where countries didn't have to stick two fingers to anyone. Not sure that I'm aware of much euro co-ordination in all of this. Italy locked down earlier than many european countries and bits of it at least (sardinia) have had their own rules on entry etc.

 

[marinyork]

thanks for the info, though would have assumed that this was an area where countries didn't have to stick two fingers to anyone. Not sure that I'm aware of much euro co-ordination in all of this. Italy locked down earlier than many european countries and bits of it at least (sardinia) have had their own rules on entry etc.

It's heavily rumoured EMA will grant EU emergency authorisation today. So it's very much sticking up two fingers announcing it before. But then Macron does seem to be doing quite a string of rash decisions in close succession.

I'm thrilled for the french public though, a bit of hope.

 

[marinyork]

Italy locked down earlier than many european countries and bits of it at least (sardinia) have had their own rules on entry etc.

You mean now or in March?

 

[Blue Hills]

You mean now or in March?

at the beginning.
(not that it saved them in the broader picture, such is the virus)

 

[srw]

I wonder where they've parked up the refrigerated vaccine carrying HGVs in the freight lorry queue in Calais. [or is it all being handled by the military via an air bridge...]

It’s coming in by air

This is what Grant Shapps said this morning:

Asked if he could guarantee UK vaccine supplies would not be affected by the travel bans, UK transport secretary Grant Shapps told BBC Breakfast:

Yes I can and the reason is actually that the vaccine wasn’t coming in through the roll on, roll off – precious few lorries had brought it in that way.
It comes via containers and the container traffic isn’t affected at all, so this isn’t an issue with the vaccine at all and indeed will never be an issue for medicines regardless because we have freight contingencies in place.

How reassuring. There are absolutely no possible problems with any of the container ports in the UK. Are there?

 

[marinyork]

at the beginning.
(not that it saved them in the broader picture, such is the virus)

Yes, they did 'lockdown' earlier than other countries, but then it appears that Italy got it first, got it worse in terms of it taking a hold early . There may have been a very large element of chance there. I'm sure some epidemiologists in private in Italy must have told the government when patient uno was picked up, look this thing may have been circulating for 2-3 months. We now know that was the case without getting into much flimsier speculations about it being around far in advance of that. Italy was also doing a fairly modest amount of testing initially, which was forgotten and fortunately the very paltry and stingy lab capacity they did have was right next to the outbreak, otherwise they'd have been even more screwed.

 

[Unkraut]

Am slightly puzzled by the later start of many European countries.
Any theories?

Surely individual EU countries don't have to wait for a nod from above?

The idea is for European-wide approval rather than separate approvals for each individual country. The EMA report will be presented today, and formal approval is taken as a given. As I said before it does seem a bit strange that they aren't going to start in anticipation of approval, but with such a serious medical procedure I assume they feel they have to wait for everything to have been done properly, especially with political pressure to cut corners.

Haha Blue Hills , as we type the French have stuck up two fingers at the EU and announced they'll start vaccinating on Sunday.

The federal health minister here anticipates beginning the vaccination programme next Sunday. It's not really going to get going until beginning of January, and there are still logistical and staffing problems to be overcome. Still some discussion of who has priority.

At least in one centre in Bavaria they have solved the logistics. A company that will prepare the vaccine has offered its car park and grounds for the construction of a vaccination centre. This conjures up pictures of bods in white coats making the stuff in one building, and then wheeling it on trolleys across the car part to another building, where another group of bods in white coats will start injecting into people's arms!

 

[marinyork]

The federal health minister here anticipates beginning the vaccination programme next Sunday. It's not really going to get going until beginning of January, and there are still logistical and staffing problems to be overcome. Still some discussion of who has priority.

At least in one centre in Bavaria they have solved the logistics. A company that will prepare the vaccine has offered its car park and grounds for the construction of a vaccination centre. This conjures up pictures of bods in white coats making the stuff in one building, and then wheeling it on trolleys across the car part to another building, where another group of bods in white coats will start injecting into people's arms!

That's good. The logistics matter.

The UK might have got there early, but without an approved Oxford vaccine it's going to be mindbendingly challenging to deliver this and the public may become very weary in January/February when they realise what the score is on the vaccines and how long this'll go on for.

The good news we may get is if any of the vaccines stop transmission and that will offer a ray of hope when people realise how long this'll take.

 

[marinyork]

As an addition, the NERVTAG guys are starting to break ranks with Boris. Calum Semple has been the third guy to attend NERVTAG meetings in some capacity and just been on tv and basically hinted that the x million people who are getting the vaccination this spring/winter may have to go through it all over again next winter/some indeterminate future date if vaccination confers immunity/cross-immunity for some longer time period.

 

[bitsandbobs]

one reason the EU has taken longer to approve is that the Germans in particular were looking for a regular approval, not an emergency approval.

Germany has a large anti-vax cohort and it was felt that relying on emergency procedure would give that group an excuse to refuse vaccination. It was hoped that regular approval would lead to higher uptake.

 

[marinyork]

Germany has a large anti-vax cohort and it was felt that relying on emergency procedure would give that group an excuse to refuse vaccination. It was hoped that regular approval would lead to higher uptake.

If we're getting into that, it's only fair to say that the EU is made up of many countries and quite a few Eastern European countries, quite a few who are not in the EU but some of which are, have substantial cultural issues around vaccines.

 

[marinyork]

EU approve the Pfizer vaccine.

 

[Julia9054]

My parents are getting dose 1 tomorrow and dose 2 on 12th January.
Given that I work in a school, I am thinking that it is still not wise to meet up until after I have had the vaccine (whenever that will be) What do others think?