COVID Vaccine !

[fossyant]

Get jib jabbed and carry on.

Had some 'normality' this evening. Finally got to our caravan, and sat in the garden with my mum and dad, sister and her husband. Mum was getting a little cold, so shoved on a little camping heater for her. We didn't get as far as the gazebo going up. Not been able to see my family like this since last summer. Mum and dad fully jabbed, me half done, sister and hubby getting first soon.

 

[mjr]

Yes, but relaxing the restrictions "too early" is not going to happen. This is a key benefit of offering 'not earlier than' dates (specification?), which you seem to have decried in the past

I "decried" setting dates up to June back in February, not the "not earlier than". I just doubt the "not earlier than" is real. As you know, I do not share your confidence in this government.

Bear in mind a good percentage of 18-29s have antibodies from previous infection.

I do and I think it's rather poor form to use "good" to describe the level of infection that 18-29s have been subjected to.

The more prevalent the disease is the more chance a VoC will emerge. But the UK's superb genomic capability and one million plus testing capacity means the systems are in place to identify emerging VoC (and current VoC not B.1.1.7) and we are seeing surge testing and tracing applied in some London boroughs (and elsewhere last week).

That's unproven surge testing, which experts say is "not yet clear whether the testing of hundreds of thousands of people in the capital will stop a cluster of dozens of cases growing."

Or more bluntly and seriously, but with a note of caution because of the party-political source:

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/DrRosena/status/1382361040046989316

and the rest of the thread, where it's said the Tooting "surge testing" apparently has a capacity of under 700 tests/day for a population of 105'000, testees have to call a complicated phone menu system to register their test and appointments were made for 4.30pm at a test station that closes at 4pm.

As I wrote earlier, I feel the final restrictions should not be lifted until the number of cases is within the capacity of test and trace, as well as vaccination being generally available, but it's looking like test and trace is still not working. The vaccination programme seeming to work fairly well (except for the shambolic booking postcode lottery) does not compensate for the continuing T&T failure: we need both.

Finally I confess growing a little bored by your constant irrelevant introduction of the Prime Minister's leadership responsibility to these 'chats'. it detracts and distracts from the nuggets of quality info you share with us.

I think everyone knows that you'd rather not see any criticism of your glorious leader... but it ain't irrelevant: it's Boris who stood at the lectern and set out dates, not data, for unlocking which seem to be being followed slavishly with little regard for the vaccination programme. The desire to be seen as the nice guy handing out unlocking sweeties is a risk.

 

[matticus]

testees

<snigger>

 

[classic33]

I do and I think it's rather poor form to use "good" to describe the level of infection that 18-29s have been subjected to.


The vaccination programme seeming to work fairly well (except for the shambolic booking postcode lottery) does not compensate for the continuing T&T failure: we need both.

On the first, maybe we should have used the profession based system to decide. Similar to Ireland, who have just changed to an age bases system. And some think that changing the method of deciding when they got the jab unfair. They required it first, the rest could and should have to wait.

You keep harping on about the postcode lottery in deciding who gets the jab, can you back that up. Prove that the current groups, for vaccination, are being ignored in favour of where you live.

I realise that you feel the system, as it is, is unfair to those at the younger end. Ideally below the fifty mark. But any large scheme like this must have a system in place and not a free for all/first come first served. Perhaps you've allowed this to shape your views on this matter. I don't know, you might.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

I do and I think it's rather poor form to use "good" to describe the level of infection that 18-29s have been subjected to.

Subjected to? Do you think they were held down and injected with live Covid? The behaviour of younger age groups has not been so robust in terms of isolating and social distancing, they are also one of the groups which are most reluctant to take the vaccine.

The tweet from Khan, is frankly, a joke. Just a Labour MP having a political pop at the Government, it means nothing.

 

[Ajax Bay]

As I wrote earlier, I feel the final restrictions should not be lifted until the number of cases is within the capacity of test and trace, as well as vaccination being generally available, but it's looking like test and trace is still not working. The vaccination programme seeming to work fairly well (except for the shambolic booking postcode lottery) does not compensate for the continuing T&T failure: we need both.
I think everyone knows that you'd rather not see any criticism of your glorious leader... but it ain't irrelevant: it's Boris who stood at the lectern and set out dates, not data, for unlocking which seem to be being followed slavishly with little regard for the vaccination programme. The desire to be seen as the nice guy handing out unlocking sweeties is a risk.

I have shared my thoughts on the non-vaccine elements of your comment on the main thread.
Have you a suggested measure for "vaccination being generally available"? All adults? All over 11s? There will still be restrictions after (no earlier than) 21 June. Are these your "final restrictions"?
Little idea what reference you are making to 'postcode lottery' let alone the added suggestion of 'shambolic'. Is this some ill-informed commentary from 3 months ago? Edit: You have explained what you meant in your post below - thank you.)
The data not dates plan has 'vaccination programme going OK?' as one of the 'tests'. In what way is the UK (and other home nations for devolved matters) government having "little regard for the vaccination programme"?

 

[mjr]

You keep harping on about the postcode lottery in deciding who gets the jab, can you back that up.

Sure. Firstly, your chance of getting through the booking app before it crashed is a function of many things, including your broadband speed, which is linked to your location.

Secondly, the chance of appointments that I could reach is a function of many things, including how many vaccination centres I can access, which again is linked to location (because they are not completely proportionately distributed) and transport links definitely aren't uniform yet either.

Now, I benefit from the setup of this lottery because I live next to an industrial park (so fast broadband), on a main road with cycleway (so good transport links), between four medium-sized market towns (so good choice of vaccination centres), but I can still see that this is a postcode lottery, not fair and wasting resources. While I just went to my nearest town, there was an over-50 in the queue near me who had travelled hours from the other side of a city for an available appointment.

Prove that the current groups, for vaccination, are being ignored in favour of where you live.

That is not necessary for it to be a postcode lottery.

I realise that you feel the system, as it is, is unfair to those at the younger end. Ideally below the fifty mark. But any large scheme like this must have a system in place and not a free for all/first come first served. [...]

I think the vaccination booking app unfairness is not particularly age-related. I know we need a system but it seems to be basically first come first served once opened to each age group and your chance of being "first come" is linked to where you live in at least two ways. It feels like another dud NHS app.

I'm surprised someone didn't contract it out to something like meetup or eventbrite! But if they had, maybe we would have got unlucky and it would have been contracted to the operator of one of those dreadful sportive booking apps. At least the NHS one was simple enough it was possible to get through quickly...

 

[matticus]

We just booked through our normal GP surgery (which meant we were jabbed at "their" centre i.e. a short distance from our home). Is this not normal in some parts of the country?

(I'm aware of other people who - for some reason - used the central booking thing and had to travel to the nearest city! )

 

[vickster]

You don’t have to use the website (it’s not an app).
Call 119 to book (as my parents did for example) or wait for the letter/ an invite from your GP (I’m 48, had an invite 2 weeks ago, I know of others elsewhere similarly invited before the general opening up).
Everyone will get offered a vaccination even if the website happens to be down

 

[Ajax Bay]

Yes - I had a choice: text from the surgery, followed a day later by a letter from 'NHS Central'. Chose the former: the town's Tennis Centre was entirely civilised (about 24 hours after booking a slot), and I could ride there (and back). The fact that you have to go back to the same place for the second dose was also significant.
I think the strength of the English system is the variety of opportunity, still with a measure of control - NHS (national and local and volunteers) take a bow. 90% uptake is just extraordinary. Dragged down slightly by low London figures and low care home workers percentage.

 

[PK99]

Sure. Firstly, your chance of getting through the booking app before it crashed is a function of many things, including your broadband speed, which is linked to your location.

Secondly, the chance of appointments that I could reach is a function of many things, including how many vaccination centres I can access, which again is linked to location (because they are not completely proportionately distributed) and transport links definitely aren't uniform yet either.

Now, I benefit from the setup of this lottery because I live next to an industrial park (so fast broadband), on a main road with cycleway (so good transport links), between four medium-sized market towns (so good choice of vaccination centres), but I can still see that this is a postcode lottery, not fair and wasting resources. While I just went to my nearest town, there was an over-50 in the queue near me who had travelled hours from the other side of a city for an available appointment.


That is not necessary for it to be a postcode lottery.


I think the vaccination booking app unfairness is not particularly age-related. I know we need a system but it seems to be basically first come first served once opened to each age group and your chance of being "first come" is linked to where you live in at least two ways. It feels like another dud NHS app.

I'm surprised someone didn't contract it out to something like meetup or eventbrite! But if they had, maybe we would have got unlucky and it would have been contracted to the operator of one of those dreadful sportive booking apps. At least the NHS one was simple enough it was possible to get through quickly...

You really do come across as obsessed with fault finding at every turn of every stage.

If there had been an uber fair, ordered and regimented system based on defined priorities, I sense you would be complaing about beaurocratic slowness and inefficiency - saying just get the stuff in people's arms.

 

[mjr]

You don’t have to use the website (it’s not an app).
Call 119 to book (as my parents did for example) or wait for the letter/ an invite from your GP (I’m 48, had an invite 2 weeks ago, I know of others elsewhere similarly invited before the general opening up).
Everyone will get offered a vaccination even if the website happens to be down

It's a web app. Some of the crash screens even referred to it as such.

Calling 119 doesn't seem to be mentioned on https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/ and yes, people can wait for GP invites (great that you got one early but who knows how long I'd wait?), but they still have more chance of earlier vaccination if they can get through the website.

I'm sure it'll be offered to all adults (at least) eventually and the vaccination centre I used was working very smoothly (including six cycle parking spaces), so indeed thanks and well done to all involved there, but the centralised booking was pretty poor. I'm sure the uncertainty means some people are travelling great distances, taking time off work and paying for travel, possibly including slightly increased covid risk due to the longer journey there, to get their vaccination.

 

[Eric Olthwaite]

You really do come across as obsessed with fault finding at every turn of every stage.

When you take it upon yourself to prove the demonstrably absurd - that your beloved EU is outperforming the UK when it comes to vaccine rollout - you can leave no stone unturned.

 

[Rocky]

When you take it upon yourself to prove the demonstrably absurd - that your beloved EU is outperforming the UK when it comes to vaccine rollout - you can leave no stone unturned.

The only thing I'd say is that this is a long game and it is probably too soon to say which country is doing best in the Covid stakes. The wider picture isn't looking good for the UK, death-wise. There is also an issue about variants and how much protection the vaccine will provide later on down the line.

My view is that the jury is out on the UK vs EU performance. There's a few more twists of the plot to come, I fear.

 

[Eric Olthwaite]

The only thing I'd say is that this is a long game and it is probably too soon to say which country is doing best in the Covid stakes. The wider picture isn't looking good for the UK, death-wise. There is also an issue about variants and how much protection the vaccine will provide later on down the line.

My view is that the jury is out on the UK vs EU performance. There's a few more twists of the plot to come, I fear.

I agree. It's too soon to say for Covid overall; but I don't think it's too soon for Covid vaccination, which is what I was aiming at.