COVID Vaccine !

[Ajax Bay]

0.3%-30% TMN award please! #1585 ^^

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Amusingly, at tonight's press conference, Hancock said "We are stronger together, and Europe is stronger together in the fight against this pandemic."

OK, really he said the UK is stronger together, arguing against Scottish autonomy on vaccine supply, but the same argument cuts both ways. It remains a nonsense to argue that the nations of the UK should work together on vaccines but the nations of Europe or even the world should not.

I must've missed that bit bit. Maybe my old ears are failing me.

The whole thrust of his response (to the journo who simply had to bring up the topical Scottish devolution issue) was that MH was lauding the world beating success and capability of the UK when all four nations worked together.

I thought it was a good response; my only other thought was that does MH really advocate the Union remaining or was he simply following the party line.

 

[mjr]

Results of the AZ vaccine in Germany causing some concern https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-astrazeneca-ger-idUSKBN29U2D9

 

[mjr]

I must've missed that bit bit. Maybe my old ears are failing me.

The whole thrust of his response (to the journo who simply had to bring up the topical Scottish devolution issue) was that MH was lauding the world beating success and capability of the UK when all four nations worked together.

Your old ears do seem to be failing you. Hancock started the "UK is stronger together" stuff in his opening statement. He was using covid to stir that shoot before anyone could ask.

 

[tom73]

Some smoke and mirrors are at work along the line. One neighbouring area had no supply yesterday at 10 out of 15 centres. Two won't get any more till later this week. Across my wider area around 500 GP's and pharmacy staff have been vaccinating none stop. Now a bigger centre has opened with all the fanfare at a cost to the NHS at 60K a month with capacity to have 15 vaccination staff currently only 10. No vaccine supply issues and having people from all over turning up.
More local to me I been helping with transport to get people to centres I've yet to take anyone to the GP near them. They are being sent all over the place bypassing ones more local. I'm off on a ride out tomorrow to a totally different county.
Do we have the supply or not and if we don't why set even more centres what are not needed when it's working. All local primary need is the vaccine.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Results of the AZ vaccine in Germany causing some concern https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-astrazeneca-ger-idUSKBN29U2D9

Bit of a thin article from Reuters.

Your old ears do seem to be failing you. Hancock started the "UK is stronger together" stuff in his opening statement. He was using covid to stir that shoot before anyone could ask.

I must confess that I did miss the bolded bit - whether or not it is mischevious is open to interpretation:


I want to extend that thanks also to our ambulance service workers and in particular I want to thank ambulance service staff who stepped up over the weekend when an appeal went out from the Scottish Ambulance Service for extra help and ambulance services from the other nations stepped forward.

Our health systems across the UK routinely work closely together – offering support when its needed. From vaccines to ambulance services, and the UK is stronger together in the fight against this pandemic.

I know how tough that fight is. Thankfully, there are early signs that the actions we’re taking are working. The rise in the number of cases is slowing – and falling in some parts of the country like London and Scotland. At the same time, the number of vaccinations is going up.

 

[lane]

Some smoke and mirrors are at work along the line. One neighbouring area had no supply yesterday at 10 out of 15 centres. Two won't get any more till later this week. Across my wider area around 500 GP's and pharmacy staff have been vaccinating none stop. Now a bigger centre has opened with all the fanfare at a cost to the NHS at 60K a month with capacity to have 15 vaccination staff currently only 10. No vaccine supply issues and having people from all over turning up.
More local to me I been helping with transport to get people to centres I've yet to take anyone to the GP near them. They are being sent all over the place bypassing ones more local. I'm off on a ride out tomorrow to a totally different county.
Do we have the supply or not and if we don't why set even more centres what are not needed when it's working. All local primary need is the vaccine.

People from Nottingham beings sent to Boston and those from Derbyshire to Birmingham, which is surprising because Derby has a large vaccination centre at the velodrome.

 

[tom73]

People from Nottingham beings sent to Boston and those from Derbyshire to Birmingham, which is surprising because Derby has a large vaccination centre at the velodrome.

Exactly yet another massive costly political stunt. If this has to become an annual thing we need a more sustainable and effective model maybe we can call it primary care. Even more are planned just how much is this costing ? The rent bill must be costly alone.

 

[C R]

Exactly yet another massive costly political stunt. If this has to become an annual thing we need a more sustainable and effective model maybe we can call it primary care. Even more are planned just how much is this costing ? The rent bill must be costly alone.

How else are de Pfeffel's chums going to benefit?

 

[mjr]

Bit of a thin article from Reuters.

Yeah, I think they might be being cautious. There are bigger articles on a couple of UK tabloid websites but all they appeared to add is outrage along the lines of how dare those Krauts question our Great British Oxford vaccine.

Still, it's worth keeping an eye on the news, eh?

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Yeah, I think they might be being cautious. There are bigger articles on a couple of UK tabloid websites but all they appeared to add is outrage along the lines of how dare those Krauts question our Great British Oxford vaccine.

Still, it's worth keeping an eye on the news, eh?

Definitely.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Results of the AZ vaccine in Germany causing some concern https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-astrazeneca-ger-idUSKBN29U2D9

As @SpokeyDokey said "thin". Reuters is reporting facts. And your description of 'causing some concern' is bang on, but maybe better put "causing some concern in Germany". There are no results in Germany sfaik.
It quotes 'German Media', specifically the daily papers: Handelsblatt and Bild, who appear to have selected a small section of the trial report data to allow this story to 'run' and link it with the European (et al?) vaccine supply 'crisis'. The EMA meet on 29 Jan to consider authorising the Oxford-AZ vaccine. But I guess there's no hurry if they aren't going to receive supplies for a while (see other story). This mirrors the approach of the UK MHRA to authorising the Moderna vaccine: not getting it till March so there was no hurry.
The UK will now have data, growing by the day, on the effectiveness of the Oxford-AZ vaccine after one dose after 4+ weeks in over 80s. I think this may help alleviate any rational concerns the EMA has, OR confirm that there's an issue. This does seem to be another 'we have no evidence' approach, and in normal times that'd be the default approach. But times are not normal: these are emergency authorisations and it's likely that on balance, delay will cost more lives than prudence, waiting for the evidence.
I think it might have been reasonable for you to then include in your post that AstraZeneca had described the German media reports . . . . . as “completely incorrect”.

"In a written response, AstraZeneca described the German media reports saying its COVID-19 vaccine was shown to have a very low efficacy in the elderly as “completely incorrect”.
"It said Britain’s JCVI supported the vaccine’s use in the elderly. It also said that a strong immune responses to the vaccine had been shown in blood analysis of elderly trial participants.
"Britain on Dec. 30 became the first country to approve the two-shot vaccine and did not impose an upper age limit. It has so far focused on the elderly and healthcare workers for its immunisation campaign.
"AstraZeneca’s main trial in Britain started testing on adults no older than 55 because it initially focused on healthcare personnel and front line workers in active duty." [Comment: Because AZ knew that those trial participants (like @winjim maybe) were more likely to be exposed to the virus and therefore the trial requirement (volume of infections in the placebo group) could be met in a shorter time frame.]

 

[lane]

AstraZeneca had described the German media reports as “completely incorrect”. But then the reports seemed to go on top say that there was little evidence either way?

@Ajax Bay do you mind me asking if you have particular expertise in this area?

 

[mjr]

But times are not normal: these are emergency authorisations and it's likely that on balance, delay will cost more lives than prudence, waiting for the evidence.

Are these emergency authorisations? I thought the EMA had so far issued the more-stringent conditional authorisations, not emergency ones like the UK MHRA.

"It's likely" - I suspect that is correct but only time will tell and, also, what works for the UK may not work as well for more vaccine-sceptical nearby countries.

I think it might have been reasonable for you to then include in your post that AstraZeneca had described the German media reports . . . . . as “completely incorrect”.

Apparently based on nothing and, well, they would say that, wouldn't they? I thought it unremarkable, but I did give the link so anyone interested can read it, which is more than certain source-hiders on here do.

I await the UK data on effectiveness with interest, as I do the Israeli experience data. Is any published yet?

 

[Ajax Bay]

[have] you . . . particular expertise in this area?

No, sorry. Being the positive type, I'll take that enquiry as a compliment, but I appreciate that you may be 'just asking'.
I agree that the AZ response in the Reuters article seems 'strong' but I suspect that in saying 'completely incorrect' they are saying that "to say that the Oxford-AZ COVID-19 vaccine is not very effective for people over 65" is incorrect. They go on to say that the volume of over 65s in the Phase 3 trial was low, hence the numbers infected/hospitalised or not was low in the O/65s, so the numbers meant that the confidence level in the effectiveness in that cohort was low. But AZ elaborated to note that "a strong immune responses to the vaccine had been shown in blood analysis of elderly trial participants".
Of course in UK we now have close to a million over 80s who had their first dose before 12 Jan so the data being captured this weeks will reinforce (or not) the vaccine's efficacy in that cohort, and indeed more than a million for the Pfizer jab to offer evidence of its efficacy out beyond 21 days, or not.