Covid App: Yay or Nay

[MontyVeda]

A depressing thread.

Yay.

why is it depressing?

There's a lot more to beating C19 than downloading a phone app... I'd much rather folk just kept sanitising their hands when they're out and about.

 

[Reynard]

why is it depressing?

There's a lot more to beating C19 than downloading a phone app... I'd much rather folk just kept sanitising their hands when they're out and about.

The way I see it is this...

There are loads of things we can do to beat Covid - not just the app, but wearing a face covering in public, maintaining social distance, washing / sanitizing hands regularly, avoiding crowded places, limiting social interaction, avoiding public transport if it's not essential, isolating ourselves if we have symptoms, and cutting right back on those things that, in the general scheme of things, aren't truly necessary to live a good life.

They all help. But we are all different, as are our lives. The app is only one tool in a very big box of tools, and, if like me for instance, you're in a situation where is isn't the right tool for the job, you use one that's more appropriate.

 

[MontyVeda]

The way I see it is this...

There are loads of things we can do to beat Covid - not just the app, but wearing a face covering in public, maintaining social distance, washing / sanitizing hands regularly, avoiding crowded places, limiting social interaction, avoiding public transport if it's not essential, isolating ourselves if we have symptoms, and cutting right back on those things that, in the general scheme of things, aren't truly necessary to live a good life.

They all help. But we are all different, as are our lives. The app is only one tool in a very big box of tools, and, if like me for instance, you're in a situation where is isn't the right tool for the job, you use one that's more appropriate.

...and as far as i can make out, most on this thread are doing a great deal of things, many of which you listed. I find that refreshing, not depressing.

 

[Dec66]

Downloaded it and happy to use it although I'm not in anybodies presence for anything other than a brief as moment as I can manage (apart from Lovely Wife) and I'm religiously keeping 2m apart from everyone else (apart from the idiots passing closely in eg supermarkets).

Here's a thing, though... I got a notification this morning telling me I may have been in proximity to someone who may have Covid-19 ("may" doing a lot of work there).

I've been stationary in three places outside our house in the last week for more than 15 mins;

(1) my local pub for some lunch on Friday, where I was sat at a table, alone, and nobody else was within 2m of me (or even 5m)

(2) the cinema on Sunday; again, nobody apart from my youngest within 5m of us

(3) the bus going home from the cinema, nobody within 2m again

I've been in supermarkets a few times, but not been in the proximity of any given individual for more than 15 mins. Outside of that, everybody gets swerved. I'm probably more likely to get run over than anything else because I'm walking in the road to avoid people.

So... What is this app measuring?

 

[Dec66]

Here's a thing, though... I got a notification this morning telling me I may have been in proximity to someone who may have Covid-19 ("may" doing a lot of work there).

I've been stationary in three places outside our house in the last week for more than 15 mins;

(1) my local pub for some lunch on Friday, where I was sat at a table, alone, and nobody else was within 2m of me (or even 5m)

(2) the cinema on Sunday; again, nobody apart from my youngest within 5m of us

(3) the bus going home from the cinema, nobody within 2m again

I've been in supermarkets a few times, but not been in the proximity of any given individual for more than 15 mins. Outside of that, everybody gets swerved. I'm probably more likely to get run over than anything else because I'm walking in the road to avoid people.

So... What is this app measuring?

Forgive me replying to my own post, but I just read this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.s...ectly-given-covid-19-exposure-alerts-12086225

Which would explain it.

 

[gaijintendo]

I live in Scotland, work for the NHS, and immediately installed our app. It is a vanilla app much like Google/Apple proposed and most of Europe uses. I wouldn't personally install the English one until I was perfectly clear on all the data handling agreements. Serco?, Deloitte?, and friends of friends? I do remember seeing a list of contracts at some point - I am sure Microsoft had a part in this all too. (EDIT: https://tech.newstatesman.com/coronavirus/nhs-contracts-palantir-faculty-microsoft-google Google, Microsoft, PAlantir, Faculty...).

Given they made the head of Public Health England the director who oversaw one of the biggest leaks of personal information in the UK - I have to say I am no sure what they are hoping to inspire, but confidence isn't it.

 

[cisamcgu]

I downloaded it straight away - no reason not to. If you want to find a reason to justifying not downloading it, by all means do, it is your choice - but shame on you !

 

[Blue Hills]

Forgive me replying to my own post, but I just read this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.s...ectly-given-covid-19-exposure-alerts-12086225

Which would explain it.

wasn't there also something about folk not being able to tell the thing they had tested negative under certain circumstances? That's now fixed I think, but it seems to me the thing is absolute pants. I won't be using it. I'm very careful about where I go, what I do (have been all along). Have more recently been to the odd spoons - they have my details.

 

[raleighnut]

I downloaded it straight away - no reason not to. If you want to find a reason to justifying not downloading it, by all means do, it is your choice - but shame on you !

Like I said I would but my phone is too basic to do 'Apps' and I'm not buying a bloody 'smartphone' (can't afford one for a start) in the meanwhile I'm doing everything I can to avoid it as I'm in the 'at risk' group (type 2 Diabetes) so no pubs/cafes/cinema/shopping/buses. I think the most 'at risk' thing I do is go to the Chemist (with a mask on) for my prescription.

 

[srw]

I live in Scotland, work for the NHS, and immediately installed our app. It is a vanilla app much like Google/Apple proposed and most of Europe uses. I wouldn't personally install the English one until I was perfectly clear on all the data handling agreements. Serco?, Deloitte?, and friends of friends? I do remember seeing a list of contracts at some point - I am sure Microsoft had a part in this all too. (EDIT: https://tech.newstatesman.com/coronavirus/nhs-contracts-palantir-faculty-microsoft-google Google, Microsoft, PAlantir, Faculty...).

Given they made the head of Public Health England the director who oversaw one of the biggest leaks of personal information in the UK - I have to say I am no sure what they are hoping to inspire, but confidence isn't it.

Here are the main data handling arrangements for the English app:
"The app is being overseen by NHS Test and Trace, which is part of DHSC. DHSC has contracts or agreements with some other organisations that provide services in developing or supporting the app. The ones that will be processing personal data are:

• Amazon Web Services (AWS) which hosts the central system (cloud server) that supports the app
• The Health Informatics Service (THIS), which is hosted by the Calderdale and Huddersfield NHS Foundation Trust. THIS provides the ‘NPEx’ system which provides test results to the app (using the test code unique to the app"

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...arly-adopter-trial-august-2020-privacy-notice

The Scottish app claims it holds and processes no personal data. Quite how it squres that with GDPR I'm not entirely clear - in order to say "User A has been close to User B and User B is suspected of being positive" it needs to be able to identify User A and User B and attach a "positive" marker to User B. All of which sounds rather like personal data.

 

[srw]

Anyway, I've downloaded it, but have switched off the proximity sensor because it seemed to be draining my phone's battery. I'll switch it back on when I go somewhere I might be near other people.

 

[Milkfloat]

I am really surprised that people are reporting battery life issues. It uses low power Bluetooth where the hint is in the name of low power. On my iPhone the 'Exposure Notifications' function have used on average 10% of battery life over the last few days. In perspective 30% is used by Outlook, 16% by Garmin Connect and Podcasts (about an hour of day listening) used 11%.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

The Scottish app claims it holds and processes no personal data. Quite how it squres that with GDPR I'm not entirely clear - in order to say "User A has been close to User B and User B is suspected of being positive" it needs to be able to identify User A and User B and attach a "positive" marker to User B. All of which sounds rather like personal data.

As long as User A and User B can’t be identified it’s not personal data is it? That’s what the random ids changing every few minutes is about. What it really says is you’ve been in contact with a user whose phone sent this random id, and that random Id is now associated with a positive case. Your phone has that random id as a contact.

The England one fails with entering a positive result as it demands a code received in the text. The code can be tied back to the user with a positive result. Even if the code can’t be linked, the contacting the central bit reveals the users IP address which can be tied to the user, unless unregistered PAYG.

 

[MontyVeda]

I downloaded it straight away - no reason not to. If you want to find a reason to justifying not downloading it, by all means do, it is your choice - but shame on you !

What's the view like from the moral high ground?

 

[tom73]

wasn't there also something about folk not being able to tell the thing they had tested negative under certain circumstances? That's now fixed I think, but it seems to me the thing is absolute pants. I won't be using it. I'm very careful about where I go, what I do (have been all along). Have more recently been to the odd spoons - they have my details.

Party yes what has been fixed is the issue of an “NHS” app that did not allow for NHS test results to the entered in it. It only worked with tests carried out my serco which is fair given it’s serco track and trace. It still won’t let you enter a negative result either way.