Coronavirus outbreak

[mjr]

Why have we prioritised pubs over schools? Why restaurants over gyms? etc.

Because Tim Martin gives more to the Tories than the National Union of Teachers.

Because eating KFC is better for public health than exercising at LA Fitness.

Are you Cummings round to Domonomics yet?

 

[mjr]

None of this makes sense - when things are bad, they are just getting worse. I guess no rules over masks in gyms then.

The way things are going, they'll probably make them compulsory but say the bottom edge of the mask must be above your eyebrows!

 

[stowie]

Why have we prioritised pubs over schools?

Because we prefer getting pissed to educated?

Realistically it is a total nightmare to get schools back to "normal". My daughter is attending because she is year 6, and they have year 5 as well as nursery attending (nursery are in another building). But in normal times there are 900 children on a small and compact site with no room for expansion. There are no expansive playing fields to put portacabins - they would have to go in the playground which is the only open space in the whole school. Then there are logistics such as lunch time. In normal times lunch times have to be hugely staggered to accommodate all the children in the dining hall - if you have to socially distance then the first lunch slot would have to be at 9:30 and the last just before the end of school! And that is primary school - secondary is even worse as the children have to move around classrooms - I cannot see how any kind of social distancing / cleaning could prevent COVID being transmitted from one class to another. The schools problem is structural and nothing is really going to help with this.

So the government have basically given up and are hoping that the situation is OK for schools to resume in September with no social distancing.

Pubs on the other hand can limit their numbers quite easily and put into place social distancing measures based on lower numbers of customers.

 

[flake99please]

I had a complaint from someone who came to my workplace yesterday. Apparently it isn’t for me to suggest to a family of 4 chronic asthmatics (who can’t wear a face mask between them), that a full face visor would be acceptable. Neither is it my place to suggest that perhaps meandering around shops isn’t in the best Interests of their health given their medical condition & current epidemic situation.

The manager who had ‘the word’ with me then took exception to my pointing out their mask worn over their chin and not their mouth/nose. I despair sometimes

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Because we prefer getting pissed to educated?

Realistically it is a total nightmare to get schools back to "normal". My daughter is attending because she is year 6, and they have year 5 as well as nursery attending (nursery are in another building). But in normal times there are 900 children on a small and compact site with no room for expansion. There are no expansive playing fields to put portacabins - they would have to go in the playground which is the only open space in the whole school. Then there are logistics such as lunch time. In normal times lunch times have to be hugely staggered to accommodate all the children in the dining hall - if you have to socially distance then the first lunch slot would have to be at 9:30 and the last just before the end of school! And that is primary school - secondary is even worse as the children have to move around classrooms - I cannot see how any kind of social distancing / cleaning could prevent COVID being transmitted from one class to another. The schools problem is structural and nothing is really going to help with this.

So the government have basically given up and are hoping that the situation is OK for schools to resume in September with no social distancing.

Pubs on the other hand can limit their numbers quite easily and put into place social distancing measures based on lower numbers of customers.

Well, I agree that schools with social distancing are almost certainly not practical (though I'm not an expert, and it may well be there are ways to do this)

If so, we should be maximising the pupils in school, and prioritising that, so doing that *before* opening up other areas of society, in my opinon.

And we need a strategy for *how* to open up schools without distancing. That could be, just for instance, intensive testing of teachers and pupils to reduce risk without social distancing. There may be other ideas.

 

[Inertia]

Only saw one person since Friday not wearing a mask and he stuck out a mile from everyone else. Peer pressure will sort those whom can but refuse to wear a face covering.

The complete reverse here, which is probably why clarification and direction is needed. Any politician Trusting an entire nation to show common sense is an idiot, or trying to pass the buck*.

*these are not mutually exclusive

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

A colleague just passed away . Suicide after becoming ill with Covid.

 

[mjr]

Well, I agree that schools with social distancing are almost certainly not practical (though I'm not an expert, and it may well be there are ways to do this)

If so, we should be maximising the pupils in school, and prioritising that, so doing that *before* opening up other areas of society, in my opinon.

Rent the pubs as classrooms?

And we need a strategy for *how* to open up schools without distancing. That could be, just for instance, intensive testing of teachers and pupils to reduce risk without social distancing. There may be other ideas.

I don't think that's feasible until we have a less invasive test than the swab scratching deep. Doing that repeatedly to children seems likely to traumatise them for years.

 

[mjr]

The manager who had ‘the word’ with me then took exception to my pointing out their mask worn over their chin and not their mouth/nose. I despair sometimes

"Lions led by donkeys" is more than this country's motto :-(

 

[tom73]

Restaurants and pubs face coverings is quite easy.
Do what Japan do they only remove them once they are sat at a table and replace them when at any point they leave the table.
Such as going to toilet or using the wider public areas of the building.
Which both limits the risk and is practical.
What interest me is the number of placers that do temperature checks on the door. But don't want to encourage the use the face coverings thinking the first somehow is going to help keep staff and customers safe.

 

[mjr]

Restaurants and pubs face coverings is quite easy.
Do want Japan they only remove them once they are sat a table and replace them when at any point they leave the table.
Such as going to toilet or using the wider public areas of the building.
Which both limits the risk and is practical.

But doesn't that mean "people are likely to Place them down on a infected surface then put them on and end up breathing the virus in or adjusting them with unclean hands" like someone shared in https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/coronavirus-outbreak.256913/post-5910320 ?

What interest me is the number of placers that do temperature checks on the door. But don't want to encourage the use the face coverings thinking the first somehow is going to help keep staff and customers safe.

Where's doing that? I've not been checked at a door yet. I've had to take my own temperature to check it's still just hay fever!

 

[tom73]

Boy the flat earth lot are out in force today. The total anti mask rubbish on twitter is totally bonkers even the radio phone in this morning which is not known for being too wacko. Was in melt down about it some just need to get a grip, some just need it explaining in a clear and simple way. But some are just way on the other side they'd be funny if this was not so life and death.
How anyone can real believe they stop you breathing god knows.

 

[tom73]

But doesn't that mean "people are likely to Place them down on a infected surface then put them on and end up breathing the virus in or adjusting them with unclean hands" like someone shared in https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/coronavirus-outbreak.256913/post-5910320 ?
Where's doing that? I've not been checked at a door yet. I've had to take my own temperature to check it's still just hay fever!

Very funny point score why don't you.
Much of the talk and public understanding then was expecting to wear and use them in the same way as in clinical settings and to the same standard which is impossible to do in social settings. leading to over thinking it and forgetting the basics which is what I have a problem about. Now most of the talk as moved and simpler face coverings message has gone mainstream.With clear simple messaging it's easy for anyone to understand how to use a face covering to do it safely and for simple source control it's not rocket science. Which is what this is all about it's not complicated most know how to use hankie.

As for temperature checks quite a few pubs , restaurants and hairdressers being interviewed locally about what measures they had put in place. All included them as a measure I've also seen some going it.

 

[chriswoody]

Well, I agree that schools with social distancing are almost certainly not practical (though I'm not an expert, and it may well be there are ways to do this)

If so, we should be maximising the pupils in school, and prioritising that, so doing that *before* opening up other areas of society, in my opinon.

And we need a strategy for *how* to open up schools without distancing. That could be, just for instance, intensive testing of teachers and pupils to reduce risk without social distancing. There may be other ideas.

Here in Germany schools have been opened since early May. It started with a phased in approach, whereby only certain year groups were allowed to return and slowly over a number of weeks all year groups were allowed back. Schools are running at 50% capacity at the moment, so only half classes while the other half stay at home and complete work at home. Classes are divided into A and B groups and either attend alternate days, or Monday - Wednesday lunch for A group and Wednesday lunch to Friday for B group.

The other way that Social distancing is managed is through the use of classrooms for kids. So unlike English schools where kids rotate around the school to different classes every hour, here the kids are static in one room all day and the teachers come to them. Break times are also managed quite strictly to cut down on the movement of people around the school.

I'm not aware of any testing regimes though, over and above those already in pace here. My family alone is involved with three different schools (My wife and I teach in different schools and my kids attend a third different school) and we've never been offered testing of any sort.

It's not perfect, but a recent study and report in Saxony is showing that schools are probably not a source of infection and authorities here are pondering about fully opening schools when they re-open after the summer holidays in August.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/german-study-covid-19-infection-rate-schools-saxony

 

[stowie]

he other way that Social distancing is managed is through the use of classrooms for kids. So unlike English schools where kids rotate around the school to different classes every hour, here the kids are static in one room all day and the teachers come to them. Break times are also managed quite strictly to cut down on the movement of people around the school.

That seems a sensible solution to the problem. Although a potential nightmare for childcare for parents returning from furlough etc.

It also helps with the other issue - if classes are made smaller for social distancing (even if there is space) then the number of teachers required increases and how can that be managed?

Here in Germany schools have been opened since early May. It started with a phased in approach, whereby only certain year groups were allowed to return and slowly over a number of weeks all year groups were allowed back. Schools are running at 50% capacity at the moment, so only half classes while the other half stay at home and complete work at home. Classes are divided into A and B groups and either attend alternate days, or Monday - Wednesday lunch for A group and Wednesday lunch to Friday for B group.

In primary schools the classes are static as part of the COVID restrictions where my daughter did previously go to other classes in streamed subjects such as maths and English.

But in secondary schools it is impossible to stay in one class. Chemistry lessons need labs, as does Physics and IT / Computer type classes. Even languages often need equipment that is not available in every class. This needs rotation of classes.