Coronavirus outbreak

[Blue Hills]

Sorry to hear that pat, didn't realise the case had already been referred to. The family are clearly in deep grief, but i don't think folks should really be saying stuff like "it wouldn't happen in italy" and making an international incident of it. This virus is from hell and things are complicated.

I do know that many italians don't trust british docs even in the best of times. But they are all in the front line.
All the best.

 

[mjr]

Wow, that was insensitive.

Less insensitive than only starting thinking about the risk to nurses once they start dying IMO. "Sure makes you think"!?!? Was anyone not already thinking about those bloody heroes who are literally risking their lives during this to save others? If not, you need to have a good look at yourself.

 

[winjim]

Less insensitive than only starting thinking about the risk to nurses once they start dying IMO. "Sure makes you think"!?!? Was anyone not already thinking about those bloody heroes who are literally risking their lives during this to save others? If not, you need to have a good look at yourself.

The spouses of healthcare workers have not only just started to think about this, I assure you. However, when the first death of a laboratory worker is reported, I'm sure that my wife and I will be thinking about it a whole lot more.

 

[newfhouse]

Less insensitive than only starting thinking about the risk to nurses once they start dying IMO. "Sure makes you think"!?!? Was anyone not already thinking about those bloody heroes who are literally risking their lives during this to save others? If not, you need to have a good look at yourself.

You’re missing the point by a country mile. I suggest you go back and read the post you were responding to.

 

[mjr]

You’re missing the point by a country mile. I suggest you go back and read the post you were responding to.

I did read the post, as written. I've reread it. It's a terse three liner. If there's another point hidden behind the offensive ending, it's lost.

I probably should have logged off instead of posting in exasperation but this had been fairly free of the sort of crass posts on other forums.

Night, all.

 

[kingrollo]

Thing is with the shortage of ventilators, it’s a shortage for this crisis, I’m sure having a stockpile of these things brings up other issues. Storing them correctly, making sure nothing on them has expired etc etc

but we should consider have more ITU beds per head like in Italy and Germany.

As the worry I have is the Italians are better provisioned than the NHS and it’s not exactly a party over there.

I think the worry for Johnson and co - is they must have a country doing worse - at the moment they do in Italy .....but for how much longer - we seem to jumped from 100 to close on 600 in a matter of days ....the next few weeks don't bear thinking about tbh....

 

[Pat "5mph"]

When I phoned 111 I was told to self isolate for 7 days but to call back in if symptoms, esp breathing, became significantly worse. The message I had was not a simple wait 7 days.

His family tells me that the boy was told by the NHS (can't confirm what department, though) he had a mere cold, to stay put at home.
Also, the NHS message has changed slightly from the beginning of March: before they were saying if you have mild symptoms self isolate for 7 days, now they tell you to phone them.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

NHS staff improvising respirators from snorkels....

Apologies for the incompetent pasting from instagram.

 

[Johnno260]

Putting yourself at risk due to taking short cuts in the use of correct PPE is one thing. Willing to do your job out a sense of duty to others.
Even though you have nothing better then a bit of cloth , a bit of plastic and pair of gloves if your lucky is quite another.

Health care staff don't need to die at work because of this.
They are and will because people well out of the danger are happy to let it happen.

Why worry after all we've always got the death is service payment to look forward to and after all every little helps.

We keep hearing more PPE is incoming but still it appears to be an issue, unfortunately most NHS workers will still put their health on the line, as that's how these people are, they want to help, they're programmed to help.

I think the spike we are seeing is due to people not taking the stay at home request serious, and these same people now put health workers at risk.

Here people are just ignoring social distancing, and many of the roads seem to have become brands hatch, too many people at the moment seem to think rules don't apply to them, I just am shocked at some people's total disregard for their actions.

 

[newfhouse]

I did read the post, as written. I've reread it. It's a terse three liner. If there's another point hidden behind the offensive ending, it's lost.

I’m going to assume you’re not aware that Tom’s wife is a nurse, otherwise I have no idea what’s in your mind here.

My last comment on the matter in this thread too, as it’s too much of a diversion.

 

[Johnno260]

I think the worry for Johnson and co - is they must have a country doing worse - at the moment they do in Italy .....but for how much longer - we seem to jumped from 100 to close on 600 in a matter of days ....the next few weeks don't bear thinking about tbh....

I saw that body count and turned off the news, it's heart breaking.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

I think you can only judge the timing and severity of lockdowns with hindsight.
....
What I'm trying to say is that lockdowns exact a high price from the people as they drag on, week after week. Perhaps understandably governments are very reluctant to impose them until the last possible minute

I have to say I disagree with your comments.

We were told to wash our hands and carry on our business as usual on 12th March. At that point, over 1000 had already perished in Italy, anybody with eyes would have seen their death toll was doubling every 3 days, even assuming one pays no attention at all to what happened in China weeks previously.

What was/is so exceptional about Britain?

Imposing lockdown at the last possible minute is so stupid that it is criminal - as we all know, the scale of the problem (ICU beds requirement e.g.) grows exponentially with time, that means for every 3 days we delayed firm action to curtail transmission initially, the total infected doubles in scale, quadrupling for 6 days, 8 folds for 9 days, 16 folds for 12 days delay etc.

While that may be news to the layman, should that be news to the advisors who are allegedly world experts on epidemics/pandemics?

Put it another way, if the CMO/CSA/Government were on the ball by merely 3 days earlier, the scale of our eventual COVID-19 challenges in the NHS would have been halved, or a quarter if 6 days.

If the problem had been addressed earlier, it could have been nipped in the bud - in Hongkong because of early actions, resources were never stretched, and they never needed a lockdown as comprehensive as the one here currently. Have delays exacted a low price, or a high price?

And have we forgotten that we were told the curve will be flattened, the objective was to sneak it under the NHS surge capacity, if we were to do what is necessary when the time comes, even delaying the peak to the Summer? How could that have possibly been achieved by waiting? Given the sh*tstorm for all to see in China and Italy, is it really just 20-20 hindsight, or they had a completely indefensible strategy somehow?

What is actually happening is a royal 24K f*ckup by the CMO/CSA/Government - we should not sugarcoat it - it does not deserve to be sugarcoated, and as if we didn't know already, there are serious consequences when untruths and lies are given a pass, whether because they are consistent with our prejudice, or because we simply can't be bothered to condemn them.

 

[stephec]

That is not quite right in terms of 111 guidance.

When I phoned 111 I was told to self isolate for 7 days but to call back in if symptoms, esp breathing, became significantly worse. The message I had was not a simple wait 7 days.

That was the advice that I got as well, on the 1st March when I had what was assumed was normal flu.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I think the spike we are seeing is due to people not taking the stay at home request serious, and these same people now put health workers at risk

Unlikely. I read the average time to death in China from presenting in hospital was 12-19 days, and it takes a week or more to get from infection to hospital so people dying now were very likely infected before the stay at home request.

 

[kingrollo]

I have to say I disagree with your comments.

We were told to wash our hands and carry on our business as usual on 12th March. At that point, over 1000 had already perished in Italy, anybody with eyes would have seen their death toll was doubling every 3 days, even assuming one pays no attention at all to what happened in China weeks previously.

What was/is so exceptional about Britain?

Imposing lockdown at the last possible minute is so stupid that it is criminal - as we all know, the scale of the problem (ICU beds requirement e.g.) grows exponentially with time, that means for every 3 days we delayed firm action to curtail transmission initially, the total infected doubles in scale, quadrupling for 6 days, 8 folds for 9 days, 16 folds for 12 days delay etc.

While that may be news to the layman, should that be news to the advisors who are allegedly world experts on epidemics/pandemics?

Put it another way, if the CMO/CSA/Government were on the ball by merely 3 days earlier, the scale of our eventual COVID-19 challenges in the NHS would have been halved, or a quarter if 6 days.

If the problem had been addressed earlier, it could have been nipped in the bud - in Hongkong because of early actions, resources were never stretched, and they never needed a lockdown as comprehensive as the one here currently. Have delays exacted a low price, or a high price?

And have we forgotten that we were told the curve will be flattened, the objective was to sneak it under the NHS surge capacity, if we were to do what is necessary when the time comes, even delaying the peak to the Summer? How could that have possibly been achieved by waiting? Given the sh*tstorm for all to see in China and Italy, is it really just 20-20 hindsight, or they had a completely indefensible strategy somehow?

What is actually happening is a royal 24K f*ckup by the CMO/CSA/Government - we should not sugarcoat it - it does not deserve to be sugarcoated, and as if we didn't know already, there are serious consequences when untruths and lies are given a pass, whether because they are consistent with our prejudice, or because we simply can't be bothered to condemn them.

Indeed there were people on here number crunching - showing the consequences of not acting timely.

We've all laughed at Bungling Boris "ah but he s alright" - sadly he's dropped an enormous gaffe here - this one might not be so funny.