Coronavirus outbreak

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marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
true I didn’t make that point.
Still part of me thinks home testing is a bad idea, people may see they have had it think they can do as they please and the police have a harder time enforcing things, easier to take the assume everyone will do the dumb thing approach

I agree these are massive societal level issues that don't have a clear answer and Germany has thought about them a bit, but the UK I don't think much thought's been given to them.

There are a variety of ways people might react with or without tests. Someone in their 70s or 80s (or younger) irrespective of a test might be quite fatalistic about it anyway. I don't know them that well but I have a neighbour across the road in that group who's coming and going the most of anyone on the street and that could be a factor there, or they could just be a complete muppet.
 

Stephenite

Membå
Location
OslO
Hot hubs are being widely discussed by the medical profession - they are a sort of halfway house between general practice and A&E for people with Covid symptoms.

The Prof who is a great Twitter user sought to get an online debate about their merits by using the hashtag #hothubs

Unfortunately it was already in use and she has been inundated with messages from women sending pictures of their muscle bound husbands.............moral of the story, choose your hashtag carefully.
Here in Oslo this week they have set up (what they call) a new polyclinic in each district. Seven polyclinics for a population of under 700,000. You need a referral from your GP or other health professional.
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
You are stating the bleeding obvious. But what is the solution to deal with this behaviour?
If you see it, call it out. Go round there. Tell them it's just not on

I've posted earlier that traditional British reserve is absolutely not what's needed now. If you see someone who has isn't following guidelines call them out. It's not so much them, it's the impact on others (as you so charmingly said this is stating the bleeding obvious)
 

Johnno260

Guru
Location
East Sussex
It must be spreading in a way that they hadn't previously thought - the numbers just aren't going down. Maybe masks are more useful than we thought.
......not we have enough to wear. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't become more common in future winters though.

thing is with masks good luck getting some, as for the links for them that pop up everywhere no way I’m clicking one of those and getting scammed.
 
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marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
It must be spreading in a way that they hadn't previously thought - the numbers just aren't going down. Maybe masks are more useful than we thought.
......not we have enough to wear. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't become more common in future winters though.

As RecordAceFromNew knows
1) there aren't enough masks in the UK and these need prioritising for workers

2) Italy has an obsession with masks and wore them not as much as Singapore/China/other asian countries, but nearly as much in comparison to all other countries. Italy's mask obsession doesn't seem to have made a blind bit of difference

3) There's a lot more discussion about masks in combination with visors in the UK and the entry point of the eyes. The latter point in Italy is heavily disputed they think wearing visors is totally nuts, get your frigging mask on and stop listening to eejits.

It's not disputed that someone wearing a mask in very close proximity can help someone else stop getting it i.e. an infected person reducing chance of passing it on to someone else.
 
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RecordAceFromNew

Swinging Member
Location
West London
The doctor's dilemma - by Henry Marsh is well worth a read, I would suggest.

As usual, readers' comments to articles like the above are often just as interesting and informative. I have included three from medical professionals below:

1. Working as one of the medical SpR’s [Special Registrar] in a London hospital this article resonates although does not fully capture the crisis which is evolving. As an example, we have reached maximum capacity for the amount of oxygen that we are able to deliver (yes, that is a thing).

2. All admissions are seen and triaged by a senior consultant and the only criteria by which patients are judged as to whether or not someone is suitable for intensive care and ventilation is the absence of frailty. Age has nothing to do with it other than the fact that frailty is a common feature of the elderly.

3. Politicians are crying out for ventilators. New York’s mayor is asking for 30000 of them if I recall it right. This people think that ventilators will save the people. Ventilators without skilled healthcare providers are useless dead machines. What a clownshow!
To “fly” a patient on a ventilator, at least, 1.5 intensive care nurse (1 nurse per two patients per shift*3 shifts), 0.2 resident medical officer and 0.1 consultant intensivist/anesthesiologist is needed. That would mean the good mayor needs 45000 ICU nurses, 6000 resident medical officers and 3000 consultant intensivists/anesthesiologists.
Good luck with that Mr. Mayor.
The number of resident medical officers and consultants needs to be multiplied by three for three shift, which I missed.
that would mean 18000 resident medical officers and 9000 consultants would be needed for New York.
 

Johnno260

Guru
Location
East Sussex
If you see it, call it out. Go round there. Tell them it's just not on

I've posted earlier that traditional British reserve is absolutely not what's needed now. If you see someone who has isn't following guidelines call them out. It's not so much them, it's the impact on others (as you so charmingly said this is stating the bleeding obvious)

calling people out has issues, getting punched or spat at isn’t a great thing with present circumstances.

I had someone go to spit at me after they almost hit my car, they were speeding and almost smashed into me as I entered my driveway, I’m ashamed to say the red mist descended and they swiftly got in their car.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
If you see it, call it out. Go round there. Tell them it's just not on

I've posted earlier that traditional British reserve is absolutely not what's needed now. If you see someone who has isn't following guidelines call them out. It's not so much them, it's the impact on others (as you so charmingly said this is stating the bleeding obvious)

British reserve is but one facet of how people behave.

Farqing grumpy and crotchety to people face to face and moaning and complaining is another common British trait. The problem is some people are nasty judgemental feckers, a lot of the time when someone 'calls' someone out, they are going for the low hanging fruit. They are complaining to someone whose behaviour is probably marginal and the person knows that their social distancing and whatnot has already improved. The ones supposedly calling it out aren't daft, they know if they do it to the ones that aren't soft that are behaving much worse they'll have a brick through their window or visitation.

Unfortunately/fortunately most people aren't the captain kirk types on here and out there that like a bit of rufty tufty with phasers shoot to kill.
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
One of my concerns at the moment is how patients that are not Covid19 related are almost getting overlooked and struggling to get treatment.

I can confirm this is happening.

My next appointment with my consultant on Monday was cancelled yesterday.

No indication of what the alternative will be, but there has been gossip of a telephone consultation.

In a general 'Dear Patient' letter, which I assume has gone out to everyone having recurring hospital treatment, I have been told the hospital will not be able to provide the current level of treatment until the virus is dealt with.

There's never a good time to be ill, but now is a very bad time.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
I can confirm this is happening.

My next appointment with my consultant on Monday was cancelled yesterday.

I know of someone who was due an operation Friday 20th and it was cancelled on Friday 20th. The reason for the last minute cancellation that might seem blindingly obvious was they were hoping of an available high dependency bed still being available for 2-3 days. The situation here isn't believed to be as grave as some other cities, so was basically hoped that'd it be there. It wasn't :sad:.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
Had we spent lots more money on the NHS in those years, is there anything to suggest the NHS would now be better prepared for the virus?
Not automatically, but more than likely. It would depend if the management were wise in spending extra cash.

With apologies, but one of the reasons the herd immunity process was criticised so strongly here on the continent was because the British healthcare system is described as marode. Three different reports have used the same word. This means ailing, ramshackle, dilapidated, shabby - depending on context. Hoping the NHS would simply 'cope' as with normal flu was hardly wise, given the nature of corona. The pictures of British nurses wearing bin liners as protection doesn't speak of a suitably funded service. The lack of intensive care for the size of the population.

There isn't a bottomless pit of money for it, but maybe after this crisis a reappraisal of priorities might be in order. £100 billion for nuclear weapons (unusable without American permission?) might be something to reconsider. Why so much wealth ends up in the hands of so few. These sorts of questions need asking regardless of your normal political hue and the usual answers of more taxation or the market will sort it.
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
British reserve is but one facet of how people behave.

Farqing grumpy and crotchety to people face to face and moaning and complaining is another common British trait. The problem is some people are nasty judgemental feckers, a lot of the time when someone 'calls' someone out, they are going for the low hanging fruit. They are complaining to someone whose behaviour is probably marginal and the person knows that their social distancing and whatnot has already improved. The ones supposedly calling it out aren't daft, they know if they do it to the ones that aren't soft that are behaving much worse they'll have a brick through their window or visitation.

Unfortunately/fortunately most people aren't the captain kirk types on here and out there that like a bit of rufty tufty with phasers shoot to kill.
Actually, no

This is far too serious an issue. If I see anyone, and mean anyone, blatantly disregarding social distancing protocols I will go and tell them. There aren't enough police or whatever to enforce this. The people need to self enforce
 

Julia9054

Guru
Location
Knaresborough
I can confirm this is happening.

My next appointment with my consultant on Monday was cancelled yesterday.

No indication of what the alternative will be, but there has been gossip of a telephone consultation.

In a general 'Dear Patient' letter, which I assume has gone out to everyone having recurring hospital treatment, I have been told the hospital will not be able to provide the current level of treatment until the virus is dealt with.

There's never a good time to be ill, but now is a very bad time.
I am a member of a cervical cancer support forum after my own very minor brush with it last year. There are women who are having chemo cancelled and having just radiotherapy instead due to the risk of chemo weakening the immune system. No idea how this alters clinical outcomes. Very scary.
 
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