roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
Grim. All the best, stay safe as far as you can.
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Grim. All the best, stay safe as far as you can.
Accy cyclist
Legendary Member
- Location
- The hills of Accrington
Do you have figures for how many will die from the economic depression and poverty caused by this never ending cycle of lockdowns!
kingrollo
Guru
MntnMan62
Über Member
- Location
- Northern NJ
Thanks for your response. The answer to my question would be "No, I have no problem with that many people dying." As to the answer to your question, I think it is up to you to make your case. I made mine. You provide the numbers for how many people who have died from poverty and isolation that were directly related to Covid. There are already a certain number of deaths related to poverty and isolation. So you will need to establish the INCREASE in those numbers to establish how many are directly related to Covid. My suspicion is you can't provide the numbers you ask for. Therefore your question is moot.
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kingrollo
Guru
No and no one does....for one it depends over what period.
However one of the basic principles of medicine is that you deal with the emergency patients first.rightly or wrongly you don't let people die in front of you to deal with a batch of patient elective scans etc.
Accy cyclist
Legendary Member
- Location
- The hills of Accrington
On the grounds of gross negligence.
Accy cyclist
Legendary Member
- Location
- The hills of Accrington
I don't understand. Are you supplying the answer along with the question?
MntnMan62
Über Member
- Location
- Northern NJ
Combination of sheep and people. He's suggesting that people who support mask wearing and social distancing are just followers who blindly follow what the government says. I contend that people who are opposed to mask wearing and social distancing are the true sheeple. They blindly follow the rhetoric of those in government who believe that nothing should be done to stem the tide of Covid. It's a heartless and callous view of the world that supports such beliefs. And it is these people who have absolutely zero basis to substantiate their position. Instead they only respond to facts and statistics with questions that have no answer. I wear a mask whenever I go to a public place. So if I'm walking around the city I'm wearing a mask at all times even if I'm outside because I am constantly walking by other people. But I haven't gone out much. I figure a year or two of being a bit isolated is a small price to pay for helping to prevent more deaths. One last thing that Accy cyclist hasn't considered either is the fact that if people would follow the mask wearing and social distancing protocols, there would be no need for full lockdowns that shut the economy. Ironic that they are opposed the very thing that would give them what they want.
MntnMan62
Über Member
- Location
- Northern NJ
I'm interpreting your response to my comment. If I'm wrong, please point out where I am wrong.
Accy cyclist
Legendary Member
- Location
- The hills of Accrington
As i thought. You're putting word into my mouth. You were hoping i'd say words along the lines of your supplied answer. I'll ask you a question. Do you give a toss about the high rise of suicides and the many private sector workers about to lose their jobs,homes etc if they haven't done so already?
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MntnMan62
Über Member
- Location
- Northern NJ
I'm not putting words in your mouth because I've twice asked for your response. You refuse to give one. Therefore that in and of itself is a response. Again, if I'm wrong please explain how I am wrong. Third time I've asked for you explain how I'm wrong.
MntnMan62
Über Member
- Location
- Northern NJ
Sure I do. But the deaths due to the physical symptoms of the disease are preventable. And again, I've already said that wearing masks and social distancing would prevent the total shutdown of economies. So, if you just wore a mask and stayed away from people then there would be no need for lockdowns. What do you have to say to this?
kingrollo
Guru
kingrollo
Guru
The rise is suicides was fact checked by full fact.org - and actually suicides had gone down during lockdown !!!
@kingrollo
That, as you rightly say, is one of the basic principles of medicine.
But, I know I tread on very dangerous ground here, the pandemic has highlighted this as an issue:
Is it right to value all lives equally?
Should a criterion be Years of Life lost?
I saw (sorry, can't find the article now) an article comparing the Pandemic spend on saving a year of life to the Health care planning numbers used. The disparity was orders of magnitude.
This snippet from a 2018 article is pertinent.
https://www.healthknowledge.org.uk/...earch-methods/1a-epidemiology/years-lost-life
and this WHO paper makes the concept real,
The rationale for use Years of life are lost (YLL) take into account the age at which deaths occur by giving greater weight to deaths at younger age and lower weight to deaths at older age. The years of life lost (percentage of total) indicator measures the YLL due to a cause as a proportion of the total YLL lost in the population due to premature mortality.
https://www.who.int/whosis/whostat2006YearsOfLifeLost.pdf?ua=1
So, the question that Accy puts rather crudely is actually moot:
How to balance the direct loss of life in the pandemic against indirect loss of life resulting from pandemic control measures.
Or, closer to the basic principle you posited:
Two patients arrive, with an identical short term fatal short term condition. For which you have one life saving "dose".
Who gets it the 25-year-old or the 95-year-old?
If the 95-year-old arrives 5 minutes before the 25-year-old do you rescind the instruction to give the dose to the 95-year-old?
Tough, tough questions.
