Contador fails drug test

[rich p]

I find the meat story a laughable and implausible excuse which he has probably hatched up with his chums and ranks up there with Tyler Hamilton's chimera and Mary's assertion to Joseph that she wasn't playing away from home. Still, as I've said before, I'm a cynical old Hector!

People on here referring to such a small amount of Clenbuterol seem to be forgetting Yello's, and subsequently many experts', theory that the tiny amount was present in the blood he transfused that rest day. No-one is seriously suggesting thst he took the substance that day, apart from the meat story believers. Even if they tested the blood themselves to ensure its cleanness they would have been unable to detect as small an indicator as the lab did.

I strongly suspect that the Chinese rider from Shack may have accidentally ingested the stuff accidentally in China where Clenb. is in common use, and Bertie and his team have jumped on to a very convenient passing bandwagon.

I may attempt to resist passing any more comment until new evidence comes to light but that's not a promise.

 

[Keith Oates]

People on here referring to such a small amount of Clenbuterol seem to be forgetting Yello's, and subsequently many experts', theory that the tiny amount was present in the blood he transfused that rest day. No-one is seriously suggesting thst he took the substance that day, apart from the meat story believers. Even if they tested the blood themselves to ensure its cleanness they would have been unable to detect as small an indicator as the lab did.

I strongly suspect that the Chinese rider from Shack may have accidentally ingested the stuff accidentally in China where Clenb. is in common use, and Bertie and his team have jumped on to a very convenient passing bandwagon.

I may attempt to resist passing any more comment until new evidence comes to light but that's not a promise.

IF he did transfuse blood as you suggest is possible, the amount of Clenbuterol in his full blood circulation would be very small indeed and probably undetectable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chuffy]

I find the meat story a laughable and implausible excuse which he has probably hatched up with his chums and ranks up there with Tyler Hamilton's chimera and Mary's assertion to Joseph that she wasn't playing away from home. Still, as I've said before, I'm a cynical old Hector!

There is another possibilty - that in the six weeks since Bertie found out he (and his team) have been trying to figure out where any possible contamination could come from and they have latched onto the Spanish meat as the only 'likely' source. Personally I think floating that hypothesis was a big mistake as it effectively backs him into a corner with his whole defence resting on one (flimsy) possibility.

I strongly suspect that the Chinese rider from Shack may have accidentally ingested the stuff accidentally in China where Clenb. is in common use, and Bertie and his team have jumped on to a very convenient passing bandwagon.

Hardly a bandwagon - Clenbuterol contamination is a well known phenomena and has been for many years.

I've always thought Bertie was a bit smelly, but this whole scenario seems odd and I'm not convinced that it's an open and shut smoking gun (to mix metaphors).

 

[Tim Bennet.]

The fourth Spanish rider to be implicated in drug taking in the past couple of weeks is the women's cross country rider Margarita Fullana. She's been provisionally suspended after testing positive for EPO.


Cycling hasn't cleaned up it's act yet.
By a long way.
The battle goes on.


Rather scarily, the sport site I found to check the spelling of her name contains adverts placed by Google, and the top one was for an EPO booster drug.

 

[Willo]

My frustration as someone who enjoys watching cycling, but am in no way qualified (as I guess few are) on drugs, testing etc., is that each side of the argument sounds rational.

I read a piece explaining the contanimation and the point that his tests were clean previously on the tour which rules out the small trace could've been a remnant of a higher dose admistered in the past. Then I read Walsh in the Sunday Times who makes an equal case leading to suspician of blood doping.

It would be great if these investigations concluded and then just announced the rationale of the decision. There would still be gossip etc., but at least it would be more decisive. As it is, the failed test is thrown out for the media / public to come up with their own theories and any objectivity is lost by the time they finally come up with a ruling.

 

[rich p]

There is another possibilty - that in the six weeks since Bertie found out he (and his team) have been trying to figure out where any possible contamination could come from and they have latched onto the Spanish meat as the only 'likely' source. Personally I think floating that hypothesis was a big mistake as it effectively backs him into a corner with his whole defence resting on one (flimsy) possibility.

I thought that was what I said!

Hardly a bandwagon - Clenbuterol contamination is a well known phenomena and has been for many years.

I hadn't heard of the tainted meat defence until the Li Fuyu case.

 

[yello]

I may attempt to resist passing any more comment until new evidence comes to light but that's not a promise.

Well, that didn't last long!

Fwiw (and very little, I know) I think he is guilty as all hell of transfusing... and it really pains me to say it. I hope I am wrong, sincerely I do, but there's just too many ifs in the meat contamination story for it to be true, imo. I think it's possible, even plausible (depending on your definition of plausible), but just not likely imo. That is, of course, an entirely different question as to whether I think he should serve a ban or not. I don't think transfusion can be proved, there's too many ifs in that one for me too, but the rule is quite clear for clenbuterol. I think he'll swing for that (in some form or another) and should consider himself very lucky.

Now it seems he's threatening to quit if banned...

"If this is not resolved favourably and in just fashion then I would have to consider whether I would ever get back on a bike," Contador told Spanish broadcaster Telecinco

http://www.france24.com/en/20101003-contador-says-may-quit-banned-doping

 

[yello]

This is interesting reading if you want to plough through it and have a head for numbers....

http://martinbudden.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/contador-–-cheat-or-bad-meat/

Some choice cuts, easily digestable (ho ho)....

In the European Union it is legal to use clenbuterol as a tocalytic (that is to surpress premature labour) in cattle.

So a 100g piece of steak could legally contain up to 0.01 micrograms, that is 10 nanograms, of clenbuterol.

The amount of clenbuterol ingested by Contador (540 nanograms) is consistent with his assertion that he ate contaminated meat.

Note: the writer of the above is, to quote him, a scientists "in the broad sense". What that means in reality, I have no idea! Interesting reading but ultimately just another take on it.

 

[Chuffy]

I thought that was what I said!
I hadn't heard of the tainted meat defence until the Li Fuyu case.

Different emphasis old boy. My version has Team Contador going 'WTF?' and trying to figure out how the clenbuterol could be there. Your version has Team Contador knocking up some bullshit defence on the back of a fag packet.

I'm assuming that they genuinely don't know how there could be any Clenbuterol in his sample. Even if he is a Naughty Boy (quite likely) then it's not impossible that there has been some shenanigans backstage. Precedent would be Mr Landis who still maintains that he was stitched up on his +ive for testosterone, despite having subsequently 'fessed up to more than enough other offences to guarantee that his '06 ban would stand.

 

[Crackle]

Pedant posturing and explanation bending. We all know he's guilty, the Peloton knows he's guilty, he knows he's guilty, it's not like cycling is a clean sport and this is a shock horror moment. Burn him I say and throw a few others in the pond, see if they float.

 

[Chuffy]

Pedant posturing and explanation bending. We all know he's guilty, the Peloton knows he's guilty, he knows he's guilty, it's not like cycling is a clean sport and this is a shock horror moment. Burn him I say and throw a few others in the pond, see if they float.

And you used to be such a nice fanboy.

 

[yello]

'ere Chuffy, you following the UCI v WADA slant on all of this on Cycling News? Interesting stuff... I wish I could paraphrase succinctly... maybe I'll have a go later!

I want to do something I wouldn't normally do. That is, quote somone from another forum. It really is an excellent post as it seems to but into words what I was struggling to before.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=353442&postcount=78

Somewhere there is a legal reality that makes the imposition of an absolute zero tolerance level for a single, and singled out European rider, problematic for the UCI. Or some non-expert folk made an inhouse judgement, rightly or wrongly, that this European rule minimum level" kinda makes sense, and that the Contador sample was so small and so far below it that it just didn't add up to that smoking gun.

On the one hand we have rules for powerful stimulants that set overly generous levels, allowing riders who are jacked up to 99% of it, and dead cert cheats by more reasonable readings of it, to happily peddle about in the peleton. And on the other hand we have now the ability to detect insanely small amounts of less useful amounts, possibly so small that riders could live as vegetarian Buddhist monks in little Tibetan monasteries living on nothing but thin air and free range goats milk, and still be found positive against insane standards that were drawn up in an era when that level of detection was impossible.

Without even understanding what micro-levels are contracted in totally untraceable and unavoidable ways naturally, by the grace of living in our modern society.

We might be requiring standards that are becoming impossible to pass, and apply it to singled out riders only.

Maybe, for once, the UCI did apply (or tried to apply) some sort of common sense, even if Contador was actually guilty of the offence in the first place.

 

[Chuffy]

More seriously, this needs to be done properly. If people are going to be thrown to the wolves on the basis of what we all 'know' then that will undermine confidence, not to mention being legally suspect, open to challenge and dodgy as hell. Riders who are clean or who have genuinely been fingered in error need the protection of a fair and robust system that doesn't simply burn them because we 'know' that pro-cyclists are all drug-guzzling hypowhores.

 

[Crackle]

The plasticizers are the smoking gun, if that bit of the story is true, if not....... Read the Wada guidelines on transfusions, they are simply not allowed except for clinical hospital admissions and tests.

 

[yello]

The plasticizers are the smoking gun

I'm not so sure. That they were there, yes, I can accept that. What that means though is, imo, far from straight forward. I don't accept that the mere presence of plasticizers means that an IV transfusion necessarily took place. I certainly think it's a step too far to ban AC on the basis of that assumption, as established as a link may be. That is to say, IF there was a transfusion then, yes, there'd be plasticizers in the blood... but I wouldn't state it the other way around.