Cycling2Live
Member
- Location
- Richmond, VA USA
Today's ride reminded me that the same question pops up when riding into a head wind
Climbing and Cadence...?
- Thread starter nethfel
- Start date
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cyberknight
As long as I breathe, I attack.
- Location
- Land of confusion
Read an article that says riding on the hoods with the arms bent at 90 degrees is more aero than on the drops , my default position
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/...faster-instantly-without-riding-harder-42744/
Surely bending the arms when in the drops would be the logical next step on again? Comparing a straight arm in the drops to a bent arm on the hoods is hardly fair?
I do agree that this/your position choice is very good mind you, and often choose that option too.
Chris Froome has the right idea staring at the stem it seems...except that he ought to look up a tad more in order to reduce his crash ratio...
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
Surely bending the arms when in the drops would be the logical next step on again? Comparing a straight arm in the drops to a bent arm on the hoods is hardly fair?
I do agree that this/your position choice is very good mind you, and often choose that option too.
Chris Froome has the right idea staring at the stem it seems...except that he ought to look up a tad more in order to reduce his crash ratio...
That might be more aero, but then again it is unlikely since your elbows will end up fouling your knees and hence you would have to spread them out wider than your legs.
Also by the time you start making your forearms horizontal while in the drops, your hip angle will be rather acute, hence likely to be limiting power output to a degree that offsets the aerodynamic gain anyway.
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moo
Veteran
- Location
- North London
I adopt whichever position stops me from pulling at the front wheel during a climb. It's better to push down.
There isn't the need to get the elbows horizontal when in the drops in order to get the aero advantage though, as the lower hand position is already bringing your back closer to the position it would be with horizontal arms in the hoods position. Its marginal anyway.
I also tend to tuck with my pedals level when descending the steeper hills where you would spin out if pedalling. This creates less drag also. Obviously, I would pedal if less steep as enjoy powering downhills.
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
The main features of the crouching hoods position are, lower overall height whilst maintaining a reasonable hip angle, narrower arm/elbow position and level forearms. It is about shape as well as how low you go. So whilst you might get your back in the same position, your arms will be in a completely different orientation.
You appear to be assuming a flat back is more aero, this is not correct. Width and shape play a huge part in determining a riders drag. Probably more so than how low or flat you can go!
Also the presumption that it is marginal is a funny one... especially since the data itself suggests a reduction in CdA for the test subject of 0.0306, which is massive! It is over 30W, nearly a minute in a 10 mile time trial.
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I read the article too, so the above isn't a surprise. My point was that they compared being at full height in the drops, instead of a more dynamic position like you would generally adopt otherwise no point being in the drops.
I meant marginal gains from creating the same shape in the drops as the optimal position in that article, not that it's marginal overall. Clearly it's far from marginal overall.
We're on the same page here and I sm not questioning the article other than that it's possible to get a much better position in the drops than it covered.
Tucking the arms and head in are where it all hinges.
On the flip side, being comfortable is also extremely important too. Adopting optimal position is useless if you can't hold it due to being uncomfortable. Better to be close to optimal and hold it longer.
Cycling2Live
Member
- Location
- Richmond, VA USA
Unless I missed it, the quote was
The outcome showed that gripping the brake hoods with horizontal forearms produced the smallest frontal area and equated to a power saving of 13.4 percent at 45km/h compared with sitting up with hands on the hoods.
Nothing said about hands on drops
Also, I don't thing that riding with your head bent down is a position I would use. I like to see what's in front of me.
The outcome showed that gripping the brake hoods with horizontal forearms produced the smallest frontal area and equated to a power saving of 13.4 percent at 45km/h compared with sitting up with hands on the hoods.
Nothing said about hands on drops
Also, I don't thing that riding with your head bent down is a position I would use. I like to see what's in front of me.
Quote:
"The study by Barry et al, published in the Journal of Sports Engineering and Technology, looked at five different road cycling postures to see which best overcomes drag."
and
"This horizontal-forearms position also offered a 10.3 percent saving compared with gripping the drops."
The bits appeared immediately above and below your quote.
I am wondering about control of the bike in that position? I mean, you're appearing to be in a position closer to what is used in a time trial with handlebars that aren't really designed with that position in mind? Be gentle, remember I'm a noob about a lot of this so I could be 100% wrong about the direction I'm thinking here...
Ermm, that sort of rather depends on how steep the climb is.
I think it is mostly a training target, to build up power and stamina, the sort of 'train hard - ride easy' mantra. It's not gospel.
If it was, the Netherlands would never produce any decent cyclists.
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
I was refering to the following:
By my calculations this change would tend to save around 49 seconds over 10 miles, that is a huge saving. Variable of course in rider speed and course to some degree, but regardless it will be a huge saving!
You wouldn't be slinging the bike round hair pin bends and sharp corners in that position, but there should be no stability issues whatsoever. Note the elbows will be quite a way behind the steering axis.
Turbo Rider
Just can't reMember
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- A compounded speck of dust
Crikey, thats a lot of technical stuff. I dont have any monitors, I just pedal as fast as I can until I feel all wobbly, then I change down a gear if things get too stiff (with the pedals, I mean 
), whilst maintaining the most comfortable position I can sit in. If I start to tire, I just imagine I'm on steroids and play my own theme tune in my head, which seems to work wonders. Same rules apply, no matter what the incline / decline is like and if nothing else, it guarantee's I'll be sweating like a pig on a spit by the end of it 
), whilst maintaining the most comfortable position I can sit in. If I start to tire, I just imagine I'm on steroids and play my own theme tune in my head, which seems to work wonders. Same rules apply, no matter what the incline / decline is like and if nothing else, it guarantee's I'll be sweating like a pig on a spit by the end of it