Charlie Alliston case - fixie rider accused of causing pedestrian death

[Wobblers]

@McWobble, although I agree with your first point I don't agree that every cyclist should go at a speed that would allow them to stop if any pedestrian they passed walked without warning into their past. Simply that isn't the system we have, and if it was it would be impossible to make progress on most urban roads and combined pavement/cycle path.

We have a system where there is an expectation you will look and not unexpectedly cross in front of a cyclist or car. There are a few exceptions, such as around schools, but most of the time road users rely on each other to act predictably.

Sigh. (Again.)

A pedestrian really isn't going to be teleported right in front of you through quantum tunnelling. It means looking out for pedestrians and adapting your behaviour accordingly. Which may indeed mean slowing down if you see children playing by themselves - because running around unpredictably is what childhood's all about. More usually, moving out to the centre of the road suffices, as it makes me more visible and gives more time to react. @DaveReading's suggestion that we need to creep around at 5 mph is just argument reductio ad absurdum.

If you want presumed liability - this is what it means. The party bringing the greatest risk has the greatest duty of care. You don't get legal protection of cyclists against motorists' carelessness without it also applying in the other sense with regards to pedestrians. But even there - what about simple self preservation? Running into something hurts - coming up with weasel excuses of blame doesn't earn you excusal from the laws of physics. Surely looking to ensure you don't collide with anything else is sensible?

 

[KnackeredBike]

Cycling through Oxford city centre I tend to find pedestrians often do step out without any warning. Normally either a tourist or on their phone.

Normally it is possible to take evasive action but - again from the description - it seems like CA tried to do this but as can happen both the cyclist and ped had the same idea. I have hit someone once (who stepped backwards into the road to take a photo). Less than a second to react.

Of course around schools and playgrounds is a different ball game as you expect kids to act unpredictably and reduce speed accordingly.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Cycling through Oxford city centre I tend to find pedestrians often do step out without any warning. Normally either a tourist or on their phone.

Normally it is possible to take evasive action but - again from the description - it seems like CA tried to do this but as can happen both the cyclist and ped had the same idea. I have hit someone once (who stepped backwards into the road to take a photo). Less than a second to react.

Of course around schools and playgrounds is a different ball game as you expect kids to act unpredictably and reduce speed accordingly.

Why it as as if you've never seen someone with a camera take a backwards step or five.

Best steer clear of those two guys from the glazing company.

I expect people to act entirely predictably in their unpredictability, react accordingly, and I still get caught out as they come up with new idiocies.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Sigh. (Again.)

A pedestrian really isn't going to be teleported right in front of you through quantum tunnelling. It means looking out for pwedestrians and adapting your behaviour accordingly. Which may indeed mean slowing down if you see children playing by themselves - because running around unpredictably is what childhood's all about. More usually, moving out to the centre of the road suffices, as it makes me more visible and gives more time to react. @DaveReading's suggestion that we need to creep around at 5 mph is just argument reductio ad absurdum.

If you want presumed liability - this is what it means. The party bringing the greatest risk has the greatest duty of care. You don't get legal protection of cyclists against motorists' carelessness without it also applying in the other sense with regards to pedestrians. But even there - what about simple self preservation? Running into something hurts - coming up with weasel excuses of blame doesn't earn you excusal from the laws of physics. Surely looking to ensure you don't collide with anything else is sensible?

The laws of physics are merciless and gravity is a harsh mistress.

as the nice people at Canyon like to say.

 

[srw]

Cycling through Oxford city centre I tend to find pedestrians often do step out without any warning. Normally either a tourist or on their phone.

Normally it is possible to take evasive action but - again from the description - it seems like CA tried to do this but as can happen both the cyclist and ped had the same idea. I have hit someone once (who stepped backwards into the road to take a photo). Less than a second to react.

Oxford city centre (which I take to be the bit from the Plain to Carfax and down to the police station, and separately along George Street and St Giles) is tiny. It's about three minutes riding from top to bottom and left to right if you are taking full account of the daft pedestrians. I don't think your experience is particularly relevant to Alliston's.

 

[KnackeredBike]

Oxford city centre (which I take to be the bit from the Plain to Carfax and down to the police station, and separately along George Street and St Giles) is tiny. It's about three minutes riding from top to bottom and left to right if you are taking full account of the daft pedestrians. I don't think your experience is particularly relevant to Alliston's.

Okay in future I will just get off and push in case some dippy ped walks out in front of me.

 

[mjr]

What do you mean without warning? Is the person on their phone not visible on the pavement, on their phone, and moving towards the kerb in your direction?

Maybe the person on their phone was wearing dark clothes, so was invisible as soon as they stepped off the kerb in broad daylight

Okay in future I will just get off and push in case some dippy ped walks out in front of me.

Or you could, you know, just ride slowly, cover the brakes and gently ring the bell to warn people there are bicycles around. The choice isn't between full pelt and getting off.

 

[iwantanewbike]

https://robertweetman.wordpress.com/2017/09/09/just-one-year/amp/

 

[SteveF]

Pedestrian killed in Oxford Street on Tuesday http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41263926

 

[gaijintendo]

Pedestrian killed in Oxford Street on Tuesday http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41263926

Be careful and observant out there people. That would be a horrible thing to have to head home after.

 

[oldstrath]

Pedestrian killed in Oxford Street on Tuesday http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41263926

Cyclist mashed by cars reported as "in a collision"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-41239212

Pedestrian mashed by cyclist reported as "pedestrian struck by cyclist". BBC biased much?

 

[jefmcg]

Cyclist mashed by cars reported as "in a collision"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-41239212

Pedestrian mashed by cyclist reported as "pedestrian struck by cyclist". BBC biased much?

They've improved.

It used to be "cyclist killed when he collided with a HGV", so this is better

"The cyclist was thrown into the path of the second car after being hit by the first vehicle."
But Jesus, what a nightmare! I hope he makes a quick and full recovery.

 

[growingvegetables]

View: https://twitter.com/beztweets/status/908316162198515712/photo/1


Duuuh! From the Times, now apologised for and removed (although not replaced with an accurate graph ).

 

[Inertia]

View: https://twitter.com/beztweets/status/908316162198515712/photo/1


Duuuh! From the Times, now apologised for and removed (although not replaced with an accurate graph ).

Why didnt they just fix it? I guess it didn't fit the message they were trying to convey.

 

[oldstrath]

Why didnt they just fix it? I guess it didn't fit the message they were trying to convey.

They left it up for long enough to con a few more people. The lies will go on - our removal from the roads us too important to rich corporations to stop now.