Charlie Alliston case - fixie rider accused of causing pedestrian death

[DaveReading]

A lot of the time the probability that a pedestrian will enter the zone wherein I need to take significant avoiding action is almost zero.

True, but as Adrian points out "a lot of the time" and "almost zero" doesn't equate to a guarantee that it will never happen.

My point (and the OP's) was that the probability increases as speed increases.

 

[KnackeredBike]

You don't need to cycle everywhere at 5mph. Pedestrians don't get beamed down in front of you by Scottie.

@McWobble suggested that it is cyclists job to look out for pedestrians implying that you should be able to stop if a pedestrian crosses the road in front of you with no warning.

And that does happen often - as is alleged in the CA case - if a ped is on the phone.

 

[Inertia]

@McWobble suggested that it is cyclists job to look out for pedestrians implying that you should be able to stop if a pedestrian crosses the road in front of you with no warning.

And that does happen often - as is alleged in the CA case - if a ped is on the phone.

I have been thinking what you have said and also thinking of the scenarios, I still don't think it changes that the bulk of the responsibility falls on the cyclist.

Speaking from my own experience, if I see someone close to the curb, a group of kids especially, it makes me wary and I will pay them special attention. Usually I also move out to the centre of the lane away from them.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

@McWobble suggested that it is cyclists job to look out for pedestrians implying that you should be able to stop if a pedestrian crosses the road in front of you with no warning.

And that does happen often - as is alleged in the CA case - if a ped is on the phone.

With no warning?

Surely enough warning to shout twice is not "no warning"

 

[GrumpyGregry]

True, but as Adrian points out "a lot of the time" and "almost zero" doesn't equate to a guarantee that it will never happen.

My point (and the OP's) was that the probability increases as speed increases.

Nothing is guaranteed. If you want guarantees don't ride bikes on UK roads.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I have been thinking what you have said and also thinking of the scenarios, I still don't think it changes that the bulk of the responsibility falls on the cyclist.

Speaking from my own experience, if I see someone close to the curb, a group of kids especially, it makes me wary and I will pay them special attention. Usually I also move out to the centre of the lane away from them.

In Ireland, in a hire car, I hit the brakes "for no reason" according to tlh and boo. Then the ball rolled out from between the parked cars.

 

[jarlrmai]

The pram that I nearly hit was pushed into the road from behind a van, I was outside the door zone but the person pushing the pram pushed it in front of them when they looked around the van to see if anything was coming.

 

[Inertia]

The pram that I nearly hit was pushed into the road from behind a van, I was outside the door zone but the person pushing the pram pushed it in front of them when they looked around the van to see if anything was coming.

But you managed not to hit them, you were also aware enough to the danger of someone unexpectedly opening a van door with no warning, and took precautions against it. Its not beyond our capabilities to be aware of pedestrians in the same way.

 

[winjim]

The pram that I nearly hit was pushed into the road from behind a van, I was outside the door zone but the person pushing the pram pushed it in front of them when they looked around the van to see if anything was coming.

I really don't understand why people thrust their infant offspring into the road in front of them before they've established if it's safe to cross. I mean obviously as the last sixty-odd pages have established, all road users should be looking out for pedestrians crossing the road, and I will often assert my own right to cross when and where I like in the face of traffic, but I'm not going to take the chance with my daughter.

Having said that, I have found that pushing a pram, or more often just walking with a small child strapped to my person, is a remarkably effective means of getting others to give way.

 

[DaveReading]

Having said that, I have found that pushing a pram, or more often just walking with a small child strapped to my person, is a remarkably effective means of getting others to give way.

Though I've found that the owners of said small child or pram usually object to them being borrowed for that purpose.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

If you're cycling past a parked high-sided vehicle that you can't see through (i.e., no windows), isn't it usual practice to be a bit more cautious in case what you describe should happen? That applies to car driving too, or so I was taught.

And if you see a bloke in vicinity of said parked high-sided vehicle expect his mate to walk out without looking.

 

[winjim]

Though I've found that the owners of said small child or pram usually object to them being borrowed for that purpose.

And of course there are situations where it's much less convenient. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I really don't understand why people thrust their infant offspring into the road in front of them before they've established if it's safe to cross. I mean obviously as the last sixty-odd pages have established, all road users should be looking out for pedestrians crossing the road, and I will often assert my own right to cross when and where I like in the face of traffic, but I'm not going to take the chance with my daughter.

Having said that, I have found that pushing a pram, or more often just walking with a small child strapped to my person, is a remarkably effective means of getting others to give way.

In a nearby former new town the norm seems to be for the parent to stand on the pavement with the buggy in the road.

When #1son and Boo were little they had a tandem buggy; Boo out front, #1son in back. Where we lived, in Llandysul, traffic was low and kids out front was not a problem. In Paris? Well let's say a couple of Parisian mothers gave me a piece of their mind from behind their wheels. As it happens Boo's bit of the buggy broke, in the wee small hours, on a walk back to our hotel and it ended up in a Parisian bin.

 

[srw]

And of course there are situations where it's much less convenient. Swings and roundabouts.

I thought swings and roundabouts were mainly there for the convenience of those in pushchairs.

 

[winjim]

I thought swings and roundabouts were mainly there for the convenience of those in pushchairs.

Yes, but firstly I'm talking about the convenience of the person pushing the chair rather than the person sitting in it, secondly the joke required the situation to be a counterexample to that where the presence of the child was of benefit to the person accompanying them, and thirdly if you're in a hurry to get somewhere the other side of a playground, in the presence of a toddler they're a massive inconvenience.