buying cheap bikes

[fossyant]

OK OK.... Here goes...I can get nerdy here.....

This is 7400 series Dura Ace which will be similar if differences to Ultegra as now, and as then - early to mid 90's - I run DA and Ultregra on both road bikes that are about the same age (actually the Ultegra is newer)....

Dura Ace headset 7400 - has additional weather seals and titanium coated bearing races = prolonged life (16 years on mine) - Ultegra was sealed, no additional treatment.

DA Rear Mech - sealed jocky wheels with ceramic bushes - harder wearing, less resistance - Ultegra was just sealed Mech itself is machined to tighter tolerances, so faster shifting - I can vouch for that.

BB - lighter and better sealed - both fit and forget so can't comment - cheaper ones do wear out and fail...... been there and done it....

Front Mech - similar - DA is better looking/finished/lighter

Chainset - DA stiffer lighter - shifts about the same. Much better finished.

Levers/brakeset - better response, lighter, much better looking

Hubs - better sealed, grease ports, no stripping needed - open port, squirt in grease, close. Ultegra needed to be stripped.

Need I go on.......

 

[alecstilleyedye]

Bonj, you are trolling the beginners threads, get back to pedalling your tripe in the soapbox

NEW 105 is 10 speed
I can't explain the difference, but anyone who even flicked the shifters of a stationary bike would be able to feel the difference between dura-ace and sora. You cannot argue with that. Its FACT.

sorry to dispute, but i have ridden a bike with ultegra shifters etc and they were not appreciably better than my tiagra, although they may well have been lighter. apparently the only difference between tiagra at one end and dura ace at the other, is the materials as they are mechanically identical.

 

[gbb]

Heres a comparison for you...cheap vs moderately priced bikes and how they compare.
Raleigh Chimera. Sora, Rigida wheels, unknown hubs, Ofmega crankset, heavy chromo frame.
Cost me £225 5 years ago perhaps. Its done 4000 miles and all i've replaced is the chain and tyres.
Thats a freekin good bike in my book.
I took it out tonight for the first time in ages...still impressed with its relative comfort, speed and feel.

Bianchi Via Nirone Xenon, £550, 3 years old...you know the rest...its pretty standard.


It doesnt matter which bike i go out on on my longer rides...i dont get round much, if any, faster on the Bianchi against the Raleigh.

The Sora behaves flawlessly as does the Xenon.
My average speeds are very similar on either bike.
I probably can climb a bit faster on the Bianchi, but i cant quantify it.
I'm sure i can accelerate faster on the Bianchi....but then the Raleigh can probably carry speed better when going downhill.

The real difference is in the mind. I prefer the Bianchi..of course. Its about looks, feel, ownership etc etc...all things you can't really quantify.

Is the Bianchi a better bike...yes.
Will it make me faster...i dont think so.
So, is the Raleigh a better bike then..based on the fact its cheaper and does almost everything the Bianchi does....possibly.

 

[Steve Austin]

The Suspension forks on my MTB cost me near 500 quid, RRP was a bit more than that;
Do they work better than £80 forks? yes
Do they have more functions than £80 forks? yes
Will they last longer than £80 forks? yes
Are they better forks than £80 forks? yes
Are they worth £500? probably not, but then again, would £80 forks have been as good an investment? no. No they wouldn't


Are plastic bodied pedals any good? no
Are steel tubed bars any good? no
Are cheap wire bead tyres heavy? yes
Do cheap tyres grip well? no

And
Are cheap bikes better than more expensive ones? ........?........ I know what i think

 

[bonj2]

OK OK.... Here goes...I can get nerdy here.....

This is 7400 series Dura Ace which will be similar if differences to Ultegra as now, and as then - early to mid 90's - I run DA and Ultregra on both road bikes that are about the same age (actually the Ultegra is newer)....

Dura Ace headset 7400 - has additional weather seals and titanium coated bearing races = prolonged life (16 years on mine) - Ultegra was sealed, no additional treatment.

DA Rear Mech - sealed jocky wheels with ceramic bushes - harder wearing, less resistance - Ultegra was just sealed Mech itself is machined to tighter tolerances, so faster shifting - I can vouch for that.

BB - lighter and better sealed - both fit and forget so can't comment - cheaper ones do wear out and fail...... been there and done it....

Front Mech - similar - DA is better looking/finished/lighter

Chainset - DA stiffer lighter - shifts about the same. Much better finished.

Levers/brakeset - better response, lighter, much better looking

Hubs - better sealed, grease ports, no stripping needed - open port, squirt in grease, close. Ultegra needed to be stripped.

Need I go on.......

ok, i've bolded the bits which are tangible, i.e. the sort of answer i was hoping you'd give. The rest while I won't argue with your experience on, is along the same lines as before, of 'better finished' / lighter / 'it's just nicer'.

I've no doubt dura-ace is harder wearing and longer lasting, but it's also more expensive so with sora which is x times cheaper, you can afford to replace it x times more often.
I'm primarily talking about how well it works, i.e. how well moving components work.

'Machined to tighter tolerances', where have you got that bit from? Did you work for shimano?

 

[bonj2]

The Suspension forks on my MTB cost me near 500 quid, RRP was a bit more than that;
Do they work better than £80 forks? yes
Do they have more functions than £80 forks? yes
Will they last longer than £80 forks? yes
Are they better forks than £80 forks? yes
Are they worth £500? probably not, but then again, would £80 forks have been as good an investment? no. No they wouldn't


Are plastic bodied pedals any good? no
Are steel tubed bars any good? no
Are cheap wire bead tyres heavy? yes
Do cheap tyres grip well? no

And
Are cheap bikes better than more expensive ones? ........?........ I know what i think

Well FORKS, yes! nobody's denying fox and marzocchi are better than your SR suntour and RST, Steve.
- i'm not talking about ANY bike components, i'm talking specifically about differences between the same type but different 'levels' of gears, i.e. shifters/mechs, from the same manufacturer.

btw I'd agree with all the above.

 

[bonj2]

sorry to dispute, but i have ridden a bike with ultegra shifters etc and they were not appreciably better than my tiagra, although they may well have been lighter. apparently the only difference between tiagra at one end and dura ace at the other, is the materials as they are mechanically identical.

exactly, that's exactly what i'm trying to tell them.

they use the same moulds just different (more expensive, and lighter) materials for the higher up ones.

...The real difference is in the mind. I prefer the Bianchi..of course. Its about looks, feel, ownership etc etc...all things you can't really quantify.

Is the Bianchi a better bike...yes.
Will it make me faster...i dont think so.
So, is the Raleigh a better bike then..based on the fact its cheaper and does almost everything the Bianchi does....possibly.

the heart prefers the bianchi, the mind the raleigh...

 

[fossyant]

Well it works better, and lasts better young man..... been there and done it for 16 years comparing the two top groupsets of Shimano, and Deore LX from MTB's.....

Quick example...

My DA rear mech - grab the edge of the cage near the bottom jocky, wiggle it, any play - no...how old is it ? Grab a mech like Ultegra or earlier, wiggle that, play...ohh yes..

Not being funny mate, but there are folk that change their bikes like their undies, waste a huge amount of cash on depreciation...some of us bought the best we could, then have used the bugger...my next bike will be a £5k one, and I'll use it for 20 years.... - just like my Herety was the dogs danglies 16 or so years ago....... good value I'd say......

 

[fossyant]

Funk it I'm off to bed------------ move to the cafe please............... yawn.....no telling these young snappers who think they know best.....blah blooming DURA ACE/RECORD chuffing BLAH............

 

[swee'pea99]

The last bike I bought was my most expensive yet - £77. Mind you, I only got frame & forks for that. The previous one cost £35, the one before that £33, the one before that £21. Every one an absolute cracker, even the first (£21) an old Carlton I only moved on from 'cos it was a bit small for me. A friend still rides it - and loves it. You want a good bike on a limited budget? Establish what frame size you need (rule of thumb: inside leg -9"), get on ebay, google any possibles that come up. £200-£300? Pah!

 

[bonj2]

[quote name='swee'pea99']The last bike I bought was my most expensive yet - £77. Mind you, I only got frame & forks for that. The previous one cost £35, the one before that £33, the one before that £21. Every one an absolute cracker, even the first (£21) an old Carlton I only moved on from 'cos it was a bit small for me. A friend still rides it - and loves it. You want a good bike on a limited budget? Establish what frame size you need (rule of thumb: inside leg -9"), get on ebay, google any possibles that come up. £200-£300? Pah![/QUOTE]

then you've got to get a groupset, easily a couple of hundred, for the cheapest.
then you're into the realms of the lower-end decathlon bikes, but they're brand new

 

[swee'pea99]

then you've got to get a groupset, easily a couple of hundred, for the cheapest.
then you're into the realms of the lower-end decathlon bikes, but they're brand new

Do wot John? I've never bought a groupset in my life. Good ebay bikes come complete with perfectly good groupsets. (My last-but one was Shimano 600 gears + 105 brakes + mavic rims on Campag hubs - and change out of £40.)

 

[bonj2]

thought you said you "only got frame & forks for that" ? (for £77)?
where did the rest come from if you didn't buy a groupset?

 

[swee'pea99]

My last-but-one bike.

 

[bonj2]

[quote name='swee'pea99']My last-but-one bike.[/QUOTE]

so why did you even bother getting a new one, just to get new frame and forks?
What was wrong with the old frame and forks?
Hardly seems worth it, unless it was a really super-duper frame, but (and no disrespect, but) for £77?