buying cheap bikes

[Steve Austin]

I would recommend 105 as a minimum groupset for anyone. it shifts better, lasts longer and will give better room for upgrading, as its 10 speed.
sora, and Tiagra are both very clunky in comparison to 105, and need more maintenance to work well, and will never last as long as 105/ultegra.

 

[Arch]

I think the niceties of different marques of gearing are well beyond a beginner. Well, a beginner like I would be. I know there are folk who want to do tonnes of research and look at all the niceties before they buy anything, but I fear you can end up putting a decision off for ever that way. To me a beginner (a real beginner, not someone who already cycles and wants to choose their first 'specialist' bike, be that road, or MTB or whatever), needs a bike that works, probably under a less than perfect maintenance regime, doesn't weigh so much that it's off-putting, and has some scope for personalising and tweaking as the person gets to know it, and their own abilities. And 'cheap' bikes can fit that bill very well - my first 'grown up' bike, the one I brought to York with me, and the one I got into cycling on, was a Halfords ladies town bike - cost me £120, about 10 years ago. As I learned what was good and bad about it, bits got replaced, and by the time it was pinched it was exactly what I needed for everyday about town riding. By then I also had a classic tourer and a lightweight racy tourer, and had my first eye on recumbents.

But 'cheap' is indeed relative. I still regard £250-300 as a significant outlay. To me, a 'cheap' bike is a £59.99 special from Asda, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

It's very easy to forget that not everyone physically has a lot of money to spend on a bike. As Arch implies, two or three hundred quid is an awful lot of money for some people. If this is all they can afford to spend, who are we to say they shouldn't be happy with whatever bike they end up with?

 

[TheDoctor]

I think we're all in danger of violently agreeing with each other here. Once you get away from the £60 full-sus BSO from the back of the Sunday papers, they're all not too bad. Even the cheapest bits these days work pretty well, and brakes in particular have improved immeasurably from the first 10 speed bike I had when I was a very young timelord. One of my bikes has Tourney gears - the cheapest ones Shimano do, and while they're noticeably clunkier than 105, they still work pretty well and hardly ever need tweaking. If someone is happy with their bike, whatever it cost, that's a good thing. The more of us the better.

 

[byegad]

I agree with the Doctor.
I feel that there is a lowest Price Point you don't want to get below but once over that point the ability to replace worn parts with better quality ones means your cheap bike gets better every time you need to replace a component.
I'd guess the lowest Price Point is around £250-£300. My wife bought a Discovery 201 some years back (£200 IIRC) and the only downside is the 21 speed Megarange gears. The contemporary 301 came with a 24 speed set up which would give a better upgrade opportunity.
As to telling the difference between adjacent Shimano groups. You would need more skill than I possess to notice. Between the top and bottom sets there are noticable differences. However the biggest one is felt in your pocket.

 

[Andy in Sig]

I suggest the following is the ideal situation for a beginner: find somebody who knows his way around a bike and who is prepared to give advice and then get a second hand bike to the tune of around 300 quid (with expert friend there to check out the purchase). This should result in the acquisition of a pretty high quality bike which will not be a disheartening and so off putting ride.

 

[PrettyboyTim]

I would recommend 105 as a minimum groupset for anyone. it shifts better, lasts longer and will give better room for upgrading, as its 10 speed.
sora, and Tiagra are both very clunky in comparison to 105, and need more maintenance to work well, and will never last as long as 105/ultegra.

Why would you want 10 gears on the back? There's 7 on my bike and I still sometimes feel like it's too many.

 

[PrettyboyTim]

I agree with the Doctor.
I feel that there is a lowest Price Point you don't want to get below but once over that point the ability to replace worn parts with better quality ones means your cheap bike gets better every time you need to replace a component.
I'd guess the lowest Price Point is around £250-£300.

I think it's probably less than that. My bike was £200 new, but now you can get it for as low as £160 online. It'd be an interesting to see what the cheapest new bike us forummers can find it that we would still deem 'acceptable'.

The problem I guess is how you define 'acceptable'. I'll start off by saying that plastic V-brake arms are right out. The old mountain bike my daughter has has them. Hideous. If I try riding it it's not possible to lock the wheels.

 

[col]

Now my carrera vulcan was less than £200 when i got mine,that included going halfs on the rapid fire shifters,instead of twist grip,and a new sealed bottom bracket,its been great,and im still happy with it

 

[bonj2]

I would recommend 105 as a minimum groupset for anyone. it shifts better, lasts longer and will give better room for upgrading, as its 10 speed.
sora, and Tiagra are both very clunky in comparison to 105, and need more maintenance to work well, and will never last as long as 105/ultegra.

105 doesn't HAVE to be 10 speed, i've got 9 speed 105 on my road bike.

 

[bonj2]

sora, and Tiagra are both very clunky in comparison to 105, and need more maintenance to work well, and will never last as long as 105/ultegra.

All this talk of "anyone who knows anything about bikes can appreciate the difference"
Yet you aren't able to explain it...
You sound like the women that say "well if you have to ask me what's wrong, i'm not going to tell you!"

 

[Steve Austin]

Bonj, you are trolling the beginners threads, get back to pedalling your tripe in the soapbox

NEW 105 is 10 speed
I can't explain the difference, but anyone who even flicked the shifters of a stationary bike would be able to feel the difference between dura-ace and sora. You cannot argue with that. Its FACT.

 

[fossyant]

Wind your neck in Bonjelly............ The higher up groupsets do work better - there is a difference, that bit crisper and quicker. You'll notice more of a difference as the groupsets are used - the expensive ones remain like new - but that's what you would expect if you paid a load of wonga more !

Components are much better these days - when I bought my Ultegra and Dura-Ace groupsets, you wouldn't touch 105 then...Tiagra was not to even be considered - but now Tiagra and 105 are good. - But they have had to be as Campag bottom end groupsets were always rather good.

 

[bonj2]

Wind your neck in Bonjelly............ The higher up groupsets do work better

Repeating the same assertion won't make it any truer.



The only difference is the badge is a better status symbol, and weight.
If there was any actual difference in performance, you'd be able to elaborate something like "they shift quicker because there is less friction due to the fact that they have a grommit made of X and smoother operation because of the fact that they've got a 4 part linkage instead of 2 part". This lack of a good reason why is the crux of the matter, and this is WHY I think you're talking out of your arse, not because i just like being combative. Some cyclist somewhere these days know pretty much everything there is to know about bike components. I just think that someone somewhere would have described the difference if there was any, and it would become common knowledge WHAT is different from one to the other.

but as it is...

I can't explain the difference

All the bike shops I've ever asked have said the only discernible difference is weight, and that goes for all the manufacturers - shimano, SRAM, and campag. They can't ALL be wrong. It seems to me the only people who say that the higher up ones are better are cyclists who have GOT those higher up components. I know i've got a sram x7 mech on my MTB now, which replaced an X9 which had took a knock, it works EXACTLY the same, apart from if you look up the weight is about 50g or so heavier.

 

[Steve Austin]

Bonj, you do talk some nonsense.

maybe this thread should be moved to sopabox as it has no place in Beginners.
I am not saying that sora, alivio does not do a job, BUT Dura-ace, XTR does it better, for longer.
There is a reason folk buy the more expensive groupsets, and it ain't just to prove a point, or to be purposefully contrary, it is because they are better.

debate is pointless with you Bonj.
As you are never wrong........ no matter how bizarre your nonsense may be