Bradley Wiggins calls for safer cycling laws and compulsory helmets

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Linford

Guest
It is a classic Linford "hint and run"





Te avoidance since is there for all to see.

Sweet Jesus It's Cunobelin and his 'Thudguard' for babies which may or may not be conveyed on a bicycle

The only time I've ever seen this device mentioned anywhere, is only on the interweb, and only by you - have you got a declarable interest in the company which make them ?

Can you explain your fixation of them as you seem to be desperate to link anyone who disagree's with your POV to these hats.
 

snorri

Legendary Member
Your link is behind a paywall.
I was surprised at the comment so did a little research, here's another link....
http://www.modi.monash.edu.au/obesity-facts-figures/obesity-in-australia/
 
Sweet Jesus It's Cunobelin and his 'Thudguard' for babies which may or may not be conveyed on a bicycle

The only time I've ever seen this device mentioned anywhere, is only on the interweb, and only by you - have you got a declarable interest in the company which make them ?

Can you explain your fixation of them as you seem to be desperate to link anyone who disagree's with your POV to these hats.

Once again, already explained in detali previously, but you failed to understand the simple concept. One that has served it's purpose so well in your case

I will repeat in the simplest form, just for you.

The Thudguard uses exactly the same arguments as you have done. The endoresement by medical professionals and websites, the "proven" reduction in head injuries, the drama and emotive anecdotes... and unsubstantiated "hint and run" tactics

All the things that you present as unarguable fact that we should all observe, yet dismiss when it is inconvenient to your agenda.

The question that you have avoided before.... why should we accept this anecdotal evidence and support by medical professionals when convenient (cycle and motorcycle helmets) yet dismiss the same type and level of evidence when it does not suit your agenda (Thudguard)
 

Linford

Guest
I have no truck whatever with "common sense", which usually contains very little sense at all. I'll say it again - because helmets are irrelevant, it doesn't matter whether their decision is based on calmly evaluating all the research, keeping their mum happy, or not wanting to mess up their hair. It does matter if people see cyclists and what they see confirms or reinforces a belief that cycling is a dangerous activity (or simply one that requires a lot of special safety equipment), because it could make cycling less attractive in their eyes. This doesn't matter to Linf, because (as I said) he disapproves of cycling and doesn't want to see more cyclists enjoying themselves on the road. You'll just have to trust me on the last sentence.

Those extra cyclists you keep banging on about will most likely be existing car users who have opted to use a different mode of transport to get around locally due to the rising cost of running their vehicle.

You have to attribute them with the intelligence to make an informed decision over whether they feel cycling is safe or dangerous.
It follows logically for someone who owns and runs a car, to attribute that the safety rating will increase in a vehicle when the manufacturers have put in crumple zones, side impact bars, air bags, seat belt pre-tensioners, collapsible steering columns, automatic fuel cut out devices etc, etc. Many will also reason that the extra armour for a cyclist will help protect them (see how BMX and downhill riders dress for a collision, it does follow to a logical conclusion that there is merit in employing these devices to soak up the knocks)

They as regular drivers will see many cyclists on the road whilst on their travels, and they will draw their own conclusions on how close they see other vehicles pass the said 'example' cyclists. It is the close overtakes and turning left on cyclists which they will judge as being the dangers imposed on cyclists, and the level of RLJing and pavement cycling as to how they will consider other drivers will view them, and whether those other drivers will treat them with respect or contempt, and this is what they will see as the most positive or negative parts of taking it up.

I don't believe that having to stick a bit of polystyrene on their heads to participate in cycling will have a long term negative effect apart from with women who don't like messing their hair up by putting one one.
I've always considered that if compulsion came to pass, that people would eventually just suck it up - just as motorcyclists have done - helmet wearing has certainly saved a lot of lives in this group of road users, and this is at the core of my belief on this subject.
 

david k

Hi
Location
North West
Helmet promotion/compulsion => less cycling => higher obesity levels => increased premature deaths. i.e. increased obesity is a direct consequence of helmet promotion

I can see how you make this link, i didnt deny there may be a link


Great Britain has obesity problems and doesnt have helmet compulsion. This shows that it isnt only, if indeed at all since you say probably, cycle helmet compulsion that causes obesity

Now I know its convenient for the pro-helmet brigade to not to want to talk about the negative health consequences of helmet compulsion but its a perfectly valid topic in a thread on helmet compulsion.
I haven't witnessed this.
And since I am discussing it it obviously doesn't refer to me

Car culture causing obesity is not a valid topic in a thread on helmet compulsion hence my suggestion you start a new thread on it.

My point was driving could, following/presuming the logic that it makes cycling more dangerous, would result in less people cycling and therefore contribute to obesity, and therefore is not a link between driving and obesity alone. So it is without doubt a valid point, if you chose to ignore it thats up to you.
 

PpPete

Legendary Member
Location
Chandler's Ford
Sweet Jesus It's Cunobelin and his 'Thudguard' for babies which may or may not be conveyed on a bicycle

The only time I've ever seen this device mentioned anywhere, is only on the interweb, and only by you - have you got a declarable interest in the company which make them ?

Can you explain your fixation of them as you seem to be desperate to link anyone who disagree's with your POV to these hats.

Were I still owner of a small child, the continued use of Thudguard as a straw man argument, would have entirely put me off buy one.
(Irrelevant Anecdata - all my four children have at various times fallen down and bumped their heads without the benefit of such protection)
 

Linford

Guest
Once again, already explained in detali previously, but you failed to understand the simple concept. One that has served it's purpose so well in your case

I will repeat in the simplest form, just for you.

The Thudguard uses exactly the same arguments as you have done. The endoresement by medical professionals and websites, the "proven" reduction in head injuries, the drama and emotive anecdotes... and unsubstantiated "hint and run" tactics

All the things that you present as unarguable fact that we should all observe, yet dismiss when it is inconvenient to your agenda.

The question that you have avoided before.... why should we accept this anecdotal evidence and support by medical professionals when convenient (cycle and motorcycle helmets) yet dismiss the same type and level of evidence when it does not suit your agenda (Thudguard)

I am not convinced that the existing cycle hats are up to the job, now can you stop trying to attribute an affiliation with this device to me. It is like me saying that you automatically RLJ and pavement cycle because you ride a bike. Your stance is holding yourself up for ridicule.
 

david k

Hi
Location
North West
Cart before horse.
What people see will have an effect on what they think

We see things and it alters how we think, but is it enough to make a significant difference to most sensible people?

If we are happy to allow people to make a judgement on whether to wear a helmet or not, then surely they must be considered sensible enough to make a judgement on the dangers of cycling whether they see somebody with a helmet on or not?

You really think seeing people wearing helmets is enough to stop people cycling?

Since many people wear helmets currently, this must already be happening. And if so you must hold the view that wearing helmets is making cycling less attractive, but more people are riding bikes year on year, so it doesn't fit your view.
 

Linford

Guest
1983990 said:
You have made it quite clear that you are pro-compulsion. The proviso of improved technology is not relevant to my point of view. I am therefore not misrepresenting you.

I'll tell you what, you just make up what you think you want to attribute to me, and my POV, and treat it as fact.....
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
The point, Linf, which as usual you spectacularly fail to grasp, is that proponents of the Thudguard use exactly the same arguments as proponents of cycle helmets.

However, most people rightly dismiss the Thudguard as a ridiculous over-reaction to a small risk (and I would guess that there is actually a bigger risk of head injury to children in the home than there is on a bicycle). How is it OK to dismiss the Thudguard, if you do not also dismiss the cycle helmet?

Now, how about you respond to my earlier point, that the risk of head injury as a pedestrian is broadly similar to that of a cyclist, so why is no-one suggesting helmets for pedestrians?
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
I don't believe that having to stick a bit of polystyrene on their heads to participate in cycling will have a long term negative effect apart from with women who don't like messing their hair up by putting one one.
I've always considered that if compulsion came to pass, that people would eventually just suck it up - just as motorcyclists have done - helmet wearing has certainly saved a lot of lives in this group of road users, and this is at the core of my belief on this subject.

The evidence would suggest you are wrong. But that doesn't seem to bother you much.
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
1984184 said:
Sorry have I got this wrong? Are you in fact saying that you are against compulsion?

I think he's pro compulsion, but not at the moment while cycle helmets are so substandard (so at least he does seem to accept that helmets don't do much to make you safer)

If and when a cycle helmet is designed that offers the same protection as a motorcycle helmet and is as light and well ventilated as a cycle helmet, then he will be in favour of a compulsion law.

Linf: please correct me if I have misrepresented your views.
 
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