Bradley Wiggins calls for safer cycling laws and compulsory helmets

[Red Light]

so does eveyone who drives a car o generates jobs in places that can only realistically be undertaken by people who arrive by car actively promote death by obesity? and if so is this an argument against helmets and a valid reason not to wear one?

In effect yes. But this thread is about making helmets compulsory, in case you hadn't noticed, and therefore the effect of helmet promotion/compulsion in reducing cycling levels and the direct correlation between the lack of cycling to work and obesity means that is what is relevant here. If you want to start a thread or sub-thread on the effects of the car culture on obesity be my guest.

 

[david k]

Linf has a point of view, one which you share as I recall, that compelling people to wear helmets is a good thing. Taken in isolation this may be correct, although the evidence is inconclusive. Taken in the context of the bigger picture though it is a reckless stance because of the other consequences. To maintain that stance once appraised of the consequences is willful and therefore culpable. Fortunately no one is actually going to listen to either of you on this point, but the same arguments need to be made to people who are actually in a position to be dangerous whenever the issue rears its head.

im not sure of his point of view so cannot confirm if i share it or not. he can make his own points i think.

My issue was not with whether it is right or wrong to wear a helmet but to the argument not to. Although i agree with reducing obesity i dont believe that wearing a helmet means you promote obesity any more than a company moving offices where the majority will have to drive there to maintain employment

 

[david k]

In effect yes. But this thread is about making helmets compulsory, in case you hadn't noticed,

Hi redlight, yes i understood that thanks

and therefore the effect of helmet promotion/compulsion in reducing cycling levels.

but if its about helmet compulsion why is it about reducing cycling levels?

and the direct correlation between the lack of cycling to work and obesity.

isnt it about helmet compulsion not obesity?

If you want to start a thread or sub-thread on the effects of the car culture on obesity be my guest.

I dont think I will, I wasn't that interested in car culture as such, just used it as an example to show how these issues can become so diverse that they prove very little when considering helmet use

 

[david k]

You have made it quite clear that you are pro-compulsion. The proviso of improved technology is not relevant to my point of view. I am therefore not misrepresenting you.

it appears his view is conditional, i dont think this can be ignored when considering his points

 

[theclaud]

They also make a terrible mess of ones barnet - I'm sure that must be a valid reason for anti compulsion. My daughter has cited many times when offered a spin out on my motorbike that she'd have to wash it again and didn't want the hassle. - don't you agree ?

I know that's something that troubles DZ. Mine is already something of a mess, but I generally favour getting it out of the way with one of those big clippy things, which wouldn't fit under a helmet, so that's yet another of the many reasons not to wear one (the best of which is that cycling is more fun without, but then I know that you disapprove of fun). I'm anti-compulsion because it's reckless, foolish and paternalistic, and because it is espoused by the kind of people who shouldn't be in charge of a hot cup of tea.

 

[david k]

Because compulsion causes a reduction in cyclist numbers. A reduction in cyclist numbers causes an increase in obesity.

Where is my meerkat smiley?

i get that, no problem with it either, but redlight said it was about helmet compulsion and suggested i started an alternative thread, if thats the case obesity shouldnt be referred to here

 

[david k]

but then I know that you disapprove of fun.

Really? did you say this Linford?

 

[theclaud]

After a fashion he can.

It is the Kool gang who think that you shouldn't wear a helmet. I am in the less kool gang who only believe that people should not be compelled to wear them.

Slight clarification of The Kool Gang's position, Adrian. It is that Helmets Are Shit, not that people shouldn't wear them if they want to. On an individual basis I would advise people to do whichever they feel happiest and most confident doing, on the basis that being happy and confident will result in them doing more cycling. Collectively I think that the widespread use of helmets in everyday cycling is a bad thing because it suggests that cycling is a more dangerous and extreme activity than it is.

 

[david k]

It is a consequence, therefore relevant, therefore correctly part of this discussion.

im happy to discuss it whilst referring too it too so no probs.
But if it is used as an argument against a point of view you must allow it to be challenged

 

[theclaud]

Really? did you say this Linford?

Call me a radical transtextualist, but it isn't about whether he said it or not. We have the gazillion fun-free posts that constitute Linford's existence to go on...

 

[david k]

. On an individual basis I would advise people to do whichever they feel happiest and most confident doing, on the basis that being happy and confident will result in them doing more cycling..

You are confident that people can make the right decision for themselves

Collectively I think that the widespread use of helmets in everyday cycling is a bad thing because it suggests that cycling is a more dangerous and extreme activity than it is.

but you feel the same people will make a less than obvious assumption?

 

[david k]

Call me a radical transtextualist, but it isn't about whether he said it or not. We have the gazillion fun-free posts that constitute Linford's existence to go on...

is this a confession that you make quotes up?

 

[david k]

Challenge away.

i did in an earlier post, when referring to driving and employers doing the same thing

 

[david k]

A compulsionist is a compulsionist is a compulsionist.

we will have to disagree, if he said his view is based on certain factors i would have to consider those when referring to his point of view

 

[theclaud]

Oh, o thought that Mickle's POV was that helmet wearing portrays a negative picture of cycling and was thus to be deplored.

That's what my last line says, innit? But not being of an authoritarian bent, The Kool Gang is also deplorably relaxed about people who simply feel better being mushroom-headed.