vickster
Legendary Member
I’ve never seen a cut Sheffield stand and there are a LOT around London (plenty of dented or wonky or even wobbly ones though!) This feels like an urban myth or at least a rare occurrence
Bicycle Lock Recommendations
- Thread starter RyanFrog
- Start date
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I’ve never seen a cut Sheffield stand and there are a LOT around London (plenty of dented or wonky or even wobbly ones though!) This feels like an urban myth or at least a rare occurrence
DaveReading
Don't suffer fools gladly (must try harder!)
- Location
- Reading, obvs
There have certainly been documented cases.
I've never seen a cut one either, but that's not evidence that it's never happened.
vickster
Legendary Member
Didn't say it hadn’t. Where/when was the last evidenced case? How many times a day/week/year does it happen? What type of locations?
Folks type it on these lock threads like it happens all day, every day, everywhere. I’m just saying in the myriad bike stands I see and use, I’ve never seen a cut one. Dented, flattened, occasionally loose (notably at a local supermarket where the stands are just bolted to the ground rather than anchored in concrete).
While having a poor lock cut or snipped is a far more likely occurence (indeed it happened to me in my cable lock days
)Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
Didn't say it hadn’t. Where/when was the last evidenced case? How many times a day/week/year does it happen? What type of locations?
Folks type it on these lock threads like it happens all day, every day, everywhere. I’m just saying in the myriad bike stands I see and use, I’ve never seen a cut one. Dented, flattened, occasionally loose (notably at a local supermarket where the stands are just bolted to the ground rather than anchored in concrete).
While having a poor lock cut or snipped is a far more likely occurence (indeed it happened to me in my cable lock days
I don't think anybody is suggesting it happens regularly.
What we are saying is that your lock only needs to be harder to cut than the stand your bike will be locked to.
As you say, the stands don't actually get cut much, but I don't think locks of that level do either.
If they want your bike, they’ll take your bike. Cordless tools and so powerful and effective it doesn’t matter how expensive the lock is they’ll end up breaking it, or they’ll just cut through what ever the bike is locked to.
This is the kind of message I have trouble with. It's not necessarily inaccurate but it's really not helpful. The implication is don't let the bike out of your sight, i.e. don't commute, don't go shopping, don't go visiting friends unless you can take the bike in with you.
More accurately: if they want your bike AND there isn't an easier prospect nearby, AND it passes their perceived risk/reward criteria, they'll take your bike.
It is very difficult to break a high end D lock with a leverage attack and the totally brazen scumbags who are prepared to whip out the power tools and don't care about the onlookers and are prepared to threaten them with weapons are a minority. The majority are opportunists who want a quick and surreptitious "snip and away".
PedallingNowhereSlowly
Senior Member
The problem is we are not dealing with absolutes. We are playing with probabilities, trying to improve the odds of a good outcome for ourselves and the odds of a poorer outcome for bike thieves. Or more realistically, other less-fortunate bike owners.
There are a large number of variables in play, including some unknowns. Which make it impossible to know whether or not what we are doing to improve our odds of a good outcome are effective.
I'd like to think that if we all took time and effort to secure bikes properly, bike thefts would dwindle to next to nothing but sadly I think it would spur more bike-muggings, albeit to a lesser extent on account most bicycle thieves are not that brazen.
Obviously, one of those variables is the type of bike thief we are dealing with. They range from casual individual bike thieves - who I suspect are most common - to professional bike thieves/organised gangs whom are not only networked to easily move the bikes on, but also much more incentivised.
The majority of casual bike thieves are easy to deter, with a good quality lock. Professional bike thieves - well, I think what you are locking up needs to not be worth their time. And this is fine - most of us are okay with a pub bike or hack bike - but if you are reliant on an e-bike for transport, then I figure it's going to be a case of insuring it and hoping for the best.
There are a large number of variables in play, including some unknowns. Which make it impossible to know whether or not what we are doing to improve our odds of a good outcome are effective.
I'd like to think that if we all took time and effort to secure bikes properly, bike thefts would dwindle to next to nothing but sadly I think it would spur more bike-muggings, albeit to a lesser extent on account most bicycle thieves are not that brazen.
Obviously, one of those variables is the type of bike thief we are dealing with. They range from casual individual bike thieves - who I suspect are most common - to professional bike thieves/organised gangs whom are not only networked to easily move the bikes on, but also much more incentivised.
The majority of casual bike thieves are easy to deter, with a good quality lock. Professional bike thieves - well, I think what you are locking up needs to not be worth their time. And this is fine - most of us are okay with a pub bike or hack bike - but if you are reliant on an e-bike for transport, then I figure it's going to be a case of insuring it and hoping for the best.
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
They will, if they want it strongly enough.
But that type of bike theft is pretty rare. The vast majority that go are opportunistic thefts, where the thief is going to take easy pickings.
If it is locked at all, and isn't left there for extended periods, it is far less likely to be stolen than if it is left unlocked.
not in the bigger cities
"Rare" as in a small proportion of overall bike theft figures. I don't have any stats to hand but there's a lot of cheap bikes about and a lot of crappy locks so it stands to reason that the majority of thefts will be opportunistic and "low hanging fruit".
It would be interesting to see if it's actually a larger proportion in bigger cities or just a similar percentage but of a larger population of cases.
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
Even in the bigger cities it is actually pretty rare. A large majority of bikes stolen are either not locked at all, or are locked with only a cable lock.
ebikeerwidnes
Guru
- Location
- Z’ha’dum
But for this to happen the right person has to have the right tools with them - i..e they are out after bikes - at the time that your bike is in that place
plus there is no-one around that might scare them off
the chances of anyone wandering down Widnes high street with a cordless angle grinder looking for bikes worth taking are remote and there are not that many bikes there and half of them are not locked at all
the rest are locked with something Tesco probably sells for 5.99
so why would a bike thief bother carrying a big heavy tool around?
In the centr eof Manchester - where I was a week or so ago - there are FAR more bikes
but that also reduces the chances that they will spot your specific bike and decide to target it
PedallingNowhereSlowly
Senior Member
The tool is not that heavy. And it depends on the motivation of the thief. There are invariably one or two more expensive bikes locked up in Stafford Town Centre on any given day. And by that, I mean a second hand price of more than £250, so over £500 to replace with a new equivalent.
If I was a bike thief, I know I'd make much more money moving those on, than I would a bike shaped object. If I was a professional bike thief outside of a major city, I'd probably target different towns on different days.
I'm not saying it is likely, but I am saying it is possible. I don't think it is for me, or anyone else to dictate what another persons threat model might look like. Risk and mitigating it in scenarios like this is a very personal choice and our attitude to those risks can vary wildly, dependent on many factors.
Personally, for me, if I lock-up my Trek District or Felt Broam in Stafford town centre, I'm not going to using anything less than two decent locks and if I'm going to be away from the bike for any length of time, I'd probably add a third too. I know it's unlikely that anyone is going to try and liberate the bike with an angle grinder, but I personally want to make it as hard for them as possible.
ebikeerwidnes
Guru
- Location
- Z’ha’dum
I certainly agree with using 2 or more locks
even if they are the same type - probably u-locks - then having to cut one then reset and move to get the other increases the risk
also - assuming a bike has a used value or £250 - how much would the thief get for it??
I presume most would sell it on to someone else??
