Ben Goldacre - Helmet 'Bad Science'

[Linford]

Yes I agree but it does not answer my question, I am interested that you suggest wearing an helmet when cycling because of the risks involved, about the same percentage risk as walking, you pointed out that walking is much slower, so in your opinion the risks are not the same as you do not advocate wearing an helmet for walking do you ?, so my question "So if I cycle at 3-4mph am I OK not to wear a helmet ?" was a genuine one for you to answer.

I do wear an helmet when competing and if I go out in a group I would wear one, but I think its more peer pressure than a common sense decision, as years ago nobody on a group ride would wear one.

I've already stated that I take the lid off at a given point on my favourite route...this is (a) because it am overheating, and (b) because I am doing the sort of speed you are. realistically though you an I don't cycle so we can do 3 or 4mph everywhere or else we would just be walking.

It is possible to acquire a brain injury at 7mph, but takes a bit more force to fracture a skull.

45 “Effect of Legislation on the Use of Bicycle Helmets” J C Leblanc et al,
Canadian Medical Association Journal, Vol 166 (5), 2002
About 75% of the 50 Canadian children and adolescents who die each year
from cycling injuries, die from head injuries. This study measured helmet use
before, during and after the introduction of mandatory cycle helmet use in Novia
Scotia in 1997. In the Summer and Autumns of 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998 and
1999, observers recorded cycle helmet use on arterial, residential and
recreational roads during peak traffic times. Details of the number and type of
bicycle-related injuries treated at the main Health Centre during the period were
collected. The Police conducted regular education and enforcement campaigns
to support the law, but there were no mass media campaigns after 1997.
The rate of helmet use rose dramatically after legislation, from 36% in 1995 and
38% in 1996, to 75% in 1997, 86% in 1998 and 84% in 1999. The proportion of
injured cyclists with head injuries in 1998/99 was half that in 1995/96.
http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/info/cycle_helmets.pdf

 

[Linford]

[QUOTE 2836056, member: 45"]Most are novices? Source please?

Men aged between 35 and 55 riding bikes over 125cc on rural roads remains the most likely scenario for an accident and account for two thirds of all motorcycle crashes[/quote]

I feel you are being drawn in your conclusions by a cherry picked stat. I see merit in what you are saying but the reality is far more complex.
I'm quite happy to discuss this subject in depth but it really needs its own thread..

 

[Linford]

Yes to both*. And this is relevant to the argument how?






*In fact, I've been seriously injured in three road traffic incidents (including one where I was knocked off my bike and one where the vehicle I was travelling in was blown up) and I have a habit of coming across incidents that have happened to others - so much so that I carry a full first aid kit in the car.

C&PP is the new CA&D

If I were to want to debate these issues in a cesspit, would you follow me there as well ?

 

[snorri]

 

[Linford]

So what does that tell us about the changes in other road conditions ?

 

[snorri]

So what does that tell us about the changes in other road conditions ?

I just posted it here to divert your attention from derailing other threads in the forum, this thread is long past the stage of informative debate or discussion.

 

[Wobblers]

If you walk 24 miles at 4 miles per hour then it will take you 6 hours in the environment to cover that distance. If you cycle 24 miles at 12 miles per hour then it will take you 2 hours in the environment to do the same, so your exposure level over the same distance in the environment as a pedestrian would have to be much higher to get the same result...would you not agree ?

What is the average speed of a car?

Not to mention the average speed of a motorbike?

Using this criteria, motorbikes are orders of magnitude more risky than any other form of transport (here's your Golden Opportunity to witter on about "experienced bikers, blah, blah" and post yet another photo of yourself onna motorbike. Knock yourself out (not literally)!).

You haven't answered my question: do you wear a helmet when you are walking? Why not: the risks are comparable (especially should you be plastered).

 

[Wobblers]

I'm old enough to remember the argument about whether to wear seatbelts in cars or not.

The facts are that overall, seatbelts reduce injuries and save lives. Nobody argues about that now.

Cyclists should have the sames attitude to helmets Overall they reduce injuries and save lives.

The problem here is the sentence you've put in bold is very rarely challenged - it's common sense so it must be true, yes?

Except common sense has nothing to do with science - or evidence. Whole population studies have shown no benefit from wearing a helmet: your chances of being killed are the same whether or not you wear one. Goldacre himself has published one of the best papers on this. What you state as fact has not been shown to be true.

 

[Profpointy]

Pedestrians have to put in a lot more hours in the environment to be exposed to the same percentage of risk...average walking speed on the flat 3-4mph..average cycling speed 12-14mph

Hang on a minute - so if you drive faster you reduce the risk as exposed for less time for a given distance !
That's why people drive faster in fog, to get out of the risk zone quicky

 

[swansonj]

C&PP is the new CA&D

If I were to want to debate these issues in a cesspit, would you follow me there as well ?

Now there's a vision to delight the imaginations of the rest of us.

 

[snorri]

Your appearance here signifies that the others anti's must be struggling with their convictions, who next to gang up from the 'crowd' ?

It's a case of being prepared for when you wheel in your gang of Linf supporters

 

[theclaud]

I'm quite happy to discuss this subject in depth

Please, no! Somebody make it stop.

 

[snorri]

Nah, just because a person is a lone voice in the wilderness that doesn't make them wrong.

You're a kind and generous soul Adrian.

 

[MacB]

Please, no! Somebody make it stop.

Might one suggest that not responding may be the best hope for the future? Even the witty put downs are getting old as there's only so many ways you can call someone a twat

 

[Linford]

I just posted it here to divert your attention from derailing other threads in the forum, this thread is long past the stage of informative debate or discussion.

So I'll mark that down as a troll then ?