Armstrong charged and banned
- Thread starter yello
- Start date
- Status
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
It's that naughty kid rattling the letter box again 
hoopdriver
Guru
- Location
- East Sussex
Not failing a blood test or drug test is not a proof of innocence. I seem to recall that quite a few athletes - Marion Jones springs to mind - who never failed drugs tests yet were caught up in paper trails that established their guilt. Did Bjarne Ris ever fail a drug test, or was he too tripped up by other evidence? (that's not a rhetorical question; I honestly can't remember)
Another thing I do not understand. In athletics, if one member of a relay squad is caught doing drugs, the whole lot lose their medals, placings, victories. Cycling it seems take a far more generous view. Quite a few of Lance's team mates, peope upon whom he relied to get him to the winner's podium, are proven, even confessed drug cheats. If cycling took the same stance as athletics, we wouldn't even be having a conversation about whether Lance's seven victories should stand.
Another thing I do not understand. In athletics, if one member of a relay squad is caught doing drugs, the whole lot lose their medals, placings, victories. Cycling it seems take a far more generous view. Quite a few of Lance's team mates, peope upon whom he relied to get him to the winner's podium, are proven, even confessed drug cheats. If cycling took the same stance as athletics, we wouldn't even be having a conversation about whether Lance's seven victories should stand.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
- Location
- The Red Enclave
Whenever anyone asked Riis directly if he doped, he always gave the deliberately ambiguous answer that he "never failed a test" (sound familiar?) but he later admitted he had used EPO and cortisone after Conconi was nabbed.
d.
d.
Personally, I like the idea of leaving the record books unchanged but putting an asterisk next to the name. We've just seen the winner's trophy for the 2010 Tour given to Andy Schleck, when he could well have been on a bigger programme than Berto. All a bit daft imo.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
- Location
- The Red Enclave
Lemond wasn't estimating anything - AIUI, he was referring to Lance's widely reported VO2max figure of 82* and his own significantly higher reading. The point of his question was how Lance could possibly ride faster than him with a lower VO2max.
The obvious answer to that would be that VO2max isn't directly related to performance in the way Lemond thinks it is. Personally, I don't know enough about the subject to be able to comment.
d.
*I don't know if this has ever been officially verified.
I like the asterisk idea as well, but you would need a lot of them, I think
If they do strip Armstrong of the titles then they would have to award 3 titles and a podium place to Ullrich, who is currently banned for doping. Not the message that they want to send out!
hoopdriver
Guru
- Location
- East Sussex
Given the prevalence of cheating in those days (these dsys?) an asterisk seems th only way to go. As noted above the second place finsher is also dirty, or likely to have been. It would just become too bizarre to do anything other than ake it clear these were not honest victories and leave posterity to draw its own conclsions
Just to remind folk, doping in cycling specifically is not USADAs concern - doping in US athletes is. If there's a problem with how dopers are handled in cycling, if you're looking for someone that can 'send a message' then it's UCI you should be looking at.
Who strips who of what, who is also guilty of doping - these are secondary questions. Primarily you ought be blaming (and seeking to punish) the dopers and those that organise it.
Who strips who of what, who is also guilty of doping - these are secondary questions. Primarily you ought be blaming (and seeking to punish) the dopers and those that organise it.
hoopdriver
Guru
- Location
- East Sussex
That's true, but it seems the thread has taken a broader more philosophical tack than merely looking at the USADA's and the UCI's points of reference and respective legal boundaries. There are lots of interesting points to ponder and debate in the big picture view.
hoopdriver
Guru
- Location
- East Sussex
My thinking on asterisks is only a bookkeeping matter. In no way do I want these guys or the creept Frankenstein doctors that facilitate these things to walk away from this mess. I'm thinking jail time, serious jail time.
- Status
